MAX_INSC Cylinder bug?

[MrComment]

CIR6       =FEAT/CIRCLE,CARTESIAN,IN,MAX_INSC,NO
            THEO/<0,0,-0.99978>,<0,0,1>,9
            ACTL/<-0.0039,-0.01623,-0.99931>,<0,0,1>,9.12626
            CONSTR/CIRCLE,BF,SCN7_PNT1,SCN7_PNT2,SCN7_PNT3,SCN7_PNT4,SCN7_PNT5,SCN7_PNT6,SCN7_PNT7,SCN7_PNT8,SCN7_PNT9,SCN7_PNT10,SCN7_PNT11,SCN7_PNT12,SCN7_PNT13,SCN7_PNT14,SCN7_PNT15,SCN7_PNT16,SCN7_PNT17,SCN7_PNT18,SCN7_PNT19,SCN7_PNT20,SCN7_PNT21
                             SCN7_PNT22,SCN7_PNT23,SCN7_PNT24,SCN7_PNT25,SCN7_PNT26,SCN7_PNT27,SCN7_PNT28,SCN7_PNT29,SCN7_PNT30,SCN7_PNT31,SCN7_PNT32,SCN7_PNT33,,
            OUTLIER_REMOVAL/OFF,3
            FILTER/OFF,UPR=0
CIR7       =FEAT/CIRCLE,CARTESIAN,IN,MAX_INSC,NO
            THEO/<0,0,-7.49994>,<0,0,1>,9
            ACTL/<0.01033,-0.00881,-7.49998>,<0,0,1>,9.12747
            CONSTR/CIRCLE,BF,SCN8_PNT1,SCN8_PNT2,SCN8_PNT3,SCN8_PNT4,SCN8_PNT5,SCN8_PNT6,SCN8_PNT7,SCN8_PNT8,SCN8_PNT9,SCN8_PNT10,SCN8_PNT11,SCN8_PNT12,SCN8_PNT13,SCN8_PNT14,SCN8_PNT15,SCN8_PNT16,SCN8_PNT17,SCN8_PNT18,SCN8_PNT19,SCN8_PNT20,SCN8_PNT21
                             SCN8_PNT22,SCN8_PNT23,SCN8_PNT24,SCN8_PNT25,SCN8_PNT26,SCN8_PNT27,SCN8_PNT28,SCN8_PNT29,SCN8_PNT30,SCN8_PNT31,SCN8_PNT32,SCN8_PNT33,,
            OUTLIER_REMOVAL/OFF,3
            FILTER/OFF,UPR=0
CIR8       =FEAT/CIRCLE,CARTESIAN,IN,MAX_INSC,NO
            THEO/<0,0,-14.0001>,<0,0,1>,9
            ACTL/<0.06241,-0.02537,-13.99907>,<0,0,1>,9.12836
            CONSTR/CIRCLE,BF,SCN9_PNT1,SCN9_PNT2,SCN9_PNT3,SCN9_PNT4,SCN9_PNT5,SCN9_PNT6,SCN9_PNT7,SCN9_PNT8,SCN9_PNT9,SCN9_PNT10,SCN9_PNT11,SCN9_PNT12,SCN9_PNT13,SCN9_PNT14,SCN9_PNT15,SCN9_PNT16,SCN9_PNT17,SCN9_PNT18,SCN9_PNT19,SCN9_PNT20,SCN9_PNT21
                             SCN9_PNT22,SCN9_PNT23,SCN9_PNT24,SCN9_PNT25,SCN9_PNT26,SCN9_PNT27,SCN9_PNT28,SCN9_PNT29,SCN9_PNT30,SCN9_PNT31,SCN9_PNT32,SCN9_PNT33,,
            OUTLIER_REMOVAL/OFF,3
            FILTER/OFF,UPR=0
CYL3       =FEAT/CYLINDER,CARTESIAN,IN,MAX_INSC,NO
            THEO/<0.0266,-0.02339,-7.50137>,<0,0,-1>,13.06747,13.01423
            ACTL/<0.02044,-0.01807,-7.5009>,<0.0050092,-0.0008921,-0.9999871>,13.10974,13.05872
            CONSTR/CYLINDER,BF,SCN7_PNT1,SCN7_PNT2,SCN7_PNT3,SCN7_PNT4,SCN7_PNT5,SCN7_PNT6,SCN7_PNT7,SCN7_PNT8,SCN7_PNT9,SCN7_PNT10,SCN7_PNT11,SCN7_PNT12,SCN7_PNT13,SCN7_PNT14,SCN7_PNT15,SCN7_PNT16,SCN7_PNT17,SCN7_PNT18,SCN7_PNT19,SCN7_PNT20,$
                               SCN7_PNT21,SCN7_PNT22,SCN7_PNT23,SCN7_PNT24,SCN7_PNT25,SCN7_PNT26,SCN7_PNT27,SCN7_PNT28,SCN7_PNT29,SCN7_PNT30,SCN7_PNT31,SCN7_PNT32,SCN7_PNT33,SCN8_PNT1,SCN8_PNT2,SCN8_PNT3,SCN8_PNT4,SCN8_PNT5,SCN8_PNT6,SCN8_PNT7,$
                               SCN8_PNT8,SCN8_PNT9,SCN8_PNT10,SCN8_PNT11,SCN8_PNT12,SCN8_PNT13,SCN8_PNT14,SCN8_PNT15,SCN8_PNT16,SCN8_PNT17,SCN8_PNT18,SCN8_PNT19,SCN8_PNT20,SCN8_PNT21,SCN8_PNT22,SCN8_PNT23,SCN8_PNT24,SCN8_PNT25,SCN8_PNT26,SCN8_PNT27,$
                               SCN8_PNT28,SCN8_PNT29,SCN8_PNT30,SCN8_PNT31,SCN8_PNT32,SCN8_PNT33,SCN9_PNT1,SCN9_PNT2,SCN9_PNT3,SCN9_PNT4,SCN9_PNT5,SCN9_PNT6,SCN9_PNT7,SCN9_PNT8,SCN9_PNT9,SCN9_PNT10,SCN9_PNT11,SCN9_PNT12,SCN9_PNT13,SCN9_PNT14,$
                               SCN9_PNT15,SCN9_PNT16,SCN9_PNT17,SCN9_PNT18,SCN9_PNT19,SCN9_PNT20,SCN9_PNT21,SCN9_PNT22,SCN9_PNT23,SCN9_PNT24,SCN9_PNT25,SCN9_PNT26,SCN9_PNT27,SCN9_PNT28,SCN9_PNT29,SCN9_PNT30,SCN9_PNT31,SCN9_PNT32,SCN9_PNT33,,
CYL4       =FEAT/CYLINDER,CARTESIAN,IN,MAX_INSC,NO
            THEO/<0.0266,-0.02339,-7.50137>,<0,0,-1>,13.06747,13.01423
            ACTL/<0.02044,-0.01807,-7.5009>,<0.0050092,-0.0008921,-0.9999871>,13.10974,13.05872
            CONSTR/CYLINDER,BF,CIR6,CIR7,CIR8,,
CYL5       =FEAT/CYLINDER,CARTESIAN,IN,MAX_INSC,NO
            THEO/<0.0266,-0.02339,-7.50137>,<0,0,-1>,13.06747,13.01423
            ACTL/<0.02921,-0.02134,-7.50085>,<0.005008,-0.0008929,-0.9999871>,13.12577,13.05871
            CONSTR/CYLINDER,BF,CIR6,CIR8,,
CYL6       =FEAT/CYLINDER,CARTESIAN,IN,MAX_INSC,NO
            THEO/<0.03672,-0.02058,-10.75093>,<0,0,-1>,13.08661,6.51511
            ACTL/<0.03697,-0.0167,-10.74935>,<0.0078155,-0.0022892,-0.9999668>,13.12664,6.58875
            CONSTR/CYLINDER,BFRE,CIR7,CIR8,,
CYL7       =FEAT/CYLINDER,CARTESIAN,IN,MAX_INSC,NO
            THEO/<0.00258,-0.00915,-4.25147>,<0,0,-1>,13.11842,6.51443
            ACTL/<0.00551,-0.01188,-4.25108>,<0.0022045,0.0005048,-0.9999974>,13.12479,6.53288
            CONSTR/CYLINDER,BFRE,CIR6,CIR7,,
CYL8       =FEAT/CYLINDER,CARTESIAN,IN,MAX_INSC,NO
            THEO/<0.0266,-0.02339,-7.50137>,<0,0,1>,13.06747,13.01423
            ACTL/<0.02921,-0.02134,-7.50085>,<-0.005008,0.0008929,0.9999871>,13.12577,13.05871
            CONSTR/CYLINDER,BFRE,CIR8,CIR6,,
CIR9       =FEAT/CIRCLE,CARTESIAN,IN,MAX_INSC,NO
            THEO/<0,0,-0.99978>,<0,0,1>,9
            ACTL/<-0.0039,-0.01623,-0.99931>,<0,0,1>,9.12626
            CONSTR/CIRCLE,BFRE,SCN7_PNT1,SCN7_PNT2,SCN7_PNT3,SCN7_PNT4,SCN7_PNT5,SCN7_PNT6,SCN7_PNT7,SCN7_PNT8,SCN7_PNT9,SCN7_PNT10,SCN7_PNT11,SCN7_PNT12,SCN7_PNT13,SCN7_PNT14,SCN7_PNT15,SCN7_PNT16,SCN7_PNT17,SCN7_PNT18,SCN7_PNT19,SCN7_PNT20,$
                               SCN7_PNT21,SCN7_PNT22,SCN7_PNT23,SCN7_PNT24,SCN7_PNT25,SCN7_PNT26,SCN7_PNT27,SCN7_PNT28,SCN7_PNT29,SCN7_PNT30,SCN7_PNT31,SCN7_PNT32,SCN7_PNT33,,
            OUTLIER_REMOVAL/OFF,3
            FILTER/OFF,UPR=0
CIR10      =FEAT/CIRCLE,CARTESIAN,IN,MAX_INSC,NO
            THEO/<0,0,-14.0001>,<0,0,1>,9
            ACTL/<0.06241,-0.02537,-13.99907>,<0,0,1>,9.12836
            CONSTR/CIRCLE,BFRE,SCN9_PNT1,SCN9_PNT2,SCN9_PNT3,SCN9_PNT4,SCN9_PNT5,SCN9_PNT6,SCN9_PNT7,SCN9_PNT8,SCN9_PNT9,SCN9_PNT10,SCN9_PNT11,SCN9_PNT12,SCN9_PNT13,SCN9_PNT14,SCN9_PNT15,SCN9_PNT16,SCN9_PNT17,SCN9_PNT18,SCN9_PNT19,SCN9_PNT20,$
                               SCN9_PNT21,SCN9_PNT22,SCN9_PNT23,SCN9_PNT24,SCN9_PNT25,SCN9_PNT26,SCN9_PNT27,SCN9_PNT28,SCN9_PNT29,SCN9_PNT30,SCN9_PNT31,SCN9_PNT32,SCN9_PNT33,,
            OUTLIER_REMOVAL/OFF,3
            FILTER/OFF,UPR=0

Anyone got any ideas why I cant seem to construct a Max_Insc cylinder here?

This is just a Ø9mm thru hole in a flat plane with a vectors of (0,0,-1).

Im getting frustrated!

[Wingman]

I know this is not a 'solution' but until somebody gets on here that has seen this or has knowledge can't you edit the theo and fix? (I know it should be correct - but maybe something to do with the diff between the LS and the MI features is causing this)?

[MrComment]

I suppose I could edit the theo but the actual value is just as hosed.

[Wingman]

Actual looked OK to me for the one hi-lited? Do you think it is off? It seems to be calculated pretty close to the actual if the three actuals (CIR6, 7, &8) were used to construct it.

[MrComment]

Actual looked OK to me for the one hi-lited? Do you think it is off? It seems to be calculated pretty close to the actual if the three actuals (CIR6, 7, &8) were used to construct it.

Ah, Maybe Im looking at this problem wrong?

To me it looks to me like the first 3 Circles are calculating the Data points to a Diameter of 9mm and perfectly about the Z axis? Which is perfectly good, and what I expected to see. Since these 3 circles make up the levels I want to measure for my cylinder.

With that said for Cylinder 3, I used the same data points as I did in each of the 3 "circles" but all at the same time. Now its calculating the Theo diameter as 13.067mm, and 0.027mm offset yet parallel in the opposite direction to the Z axis. I also tried the same thing with Cylinder 4 below this time I just selected the Constructed Circles themselves, but ended up with the same result. Im expecting that Cylinder 3 should be 9mm in diameter like the Theos for the first 3 circles show. This is where I apparently went wrong in my logic?

So I also tried selecting just two Circles combinations to try to come up with any answer that was 9mm like the source data shows in the first 3 circles. Lastly I tried a BFRE on a couple of the circles and got the same result as I did with the BF option, thinking that maybe recomputing the circle's data may lead to a 13mm result if the data was somehow corrupted.

You say its pretty close to the right answer? So how is PCDMIS calculating the cylinder to come up with a +13mm dia answer? And what do I need to do to get the answer Im looking for?

[JamesMannes]

Are you in the correct view plane? Z+ I guess

[Wingman]

Ah, Maybe Im looking at this problem wrong?

To me it looks to me like the first 3 Circles are calculating the Data points to a Diameter of 9mm and perfectly about the Z axis? Which is perfectly good, and what I expected to see. Since these 3 circles make up the levels I want to measure for my cylinder.

With that said for Cylinder 3, I used the same data points as I did in each of the 3 "circles" but all at the same time. Now its calculating the Theo diameter as 13.067mm, and 0.027mm offset yet parallel in the opposite direction to the Z axis. I also tried the same thing with Cylinder 4 below this time I just selected the Constructed Circles themselves, but ended up with the same result. Im expecting that Cylinder 3 should be 9mm in diameter like the Theos for the first 3 circles show. This is where I apparently went wrong in my logic?

So I also tried selecting just two Circles combinations to try to come up with any answer that was 9mm like the source data shows in the first 3 circles. Lastly I tried a BFRE on a couple of the circles and got the same result as I did with the BF option, thinking that maybe recomputing the circle's data may lead to a 13mm result if the data was somehow corrupted.

You say its pretty close to the right answer? So how is PCDMIS calculating the cylinder to come up with a +13mm dia answer? And what do I need to do to get the answer Im looking for?

My bad on the DIA. Sorry. I was looking at the Theo Center and totally blew off the diameter discrepency. WOW.

So this is just a hole and you are measuring it / constructing it several diff ways. Hmm

[cmmguy]

What makes you think that when you construct the cylinder it will use the same three points that it used for the individual circles?

[Wingman]

Shouldn't the constructed cylinder use ALL points measured to Construct? I don't construct cylinders out of circles as a practice but why would Hexagon provide a way to do it if it didn't uses all the points?

Also, he constructed cylinders using combinations of circles measured. He also constructed a Cylinder using individual Scan Points.

What are you saying?

[MrComment]

Are you in the correct view plane? Z+ I guess

Im using the Z+ work plane. I might be wrong but, I dont think it matters for a 3d feature?

[MrComment]

My bad on the DIA. Sorry. I was looking at the Theo Center and totally blew off the diameter discrepency. WOW.

So this is just a hole and you are measuring it / constructing it several diff ways. Hmm

Exactly, Its ok I actually thought it was me for a moment..

[JamesMannes]

Not real certain on cylinders and such but it does matter for 2d stuff. I'm just a fanatic when it comes to workplanes don't mind me.

[cmmguy]

Shouldn't the constructed cylinder use ALL points measured to Construct? I don't construct cylinders out of circles as a practice but why would Hexagon provide a way to do it if it didn't uses all the points?

Also, he constructed cylinders using combinations of circles measured. He also constructed a Cylinder using individual Scan Points.

What are you saying?

It sounded like he was stressing over the fact that the locations of the circles were different from the constructed Cylinder and I thought he thought the cylinder was made up of only the points used to create the maxinscr circles and not all the points.

I think you are correct and that is what I was trying to say. The maxinsc cylinder is going to "relook" at all the points when it is calculated which may result in a different location that the three individual circles.

If I misunderstoode his problem then, "Never Mind"

[cmmguy]

Not real certain on cylinders and such but it does matter for 2d stuff. I'm just a fanatic when it comes to workplanes don't mind me.

I with you too. Maybe it is old school, but it also helps me keep things right in my head...

[Wingman]

It sounded like he was stressing over the fact that the locations of the circles were different from the constructed Cylinder and I thought he thought the cylinder was made up of only the points used to create the maxinscr circles and not all the points.

I think you are correct and that is what I was trying to say. The maxinsc cylinder is going to "relook" at all the points when it is calculated which may result in a different location that the three individual circles.

If I misunderstoode his problem then, "Never Mind"

OK, that was my first reaction too. I was thinking the same thing at first.