Demented Dimensions

[operator1]

I have a program that checks a small distance of .09. One surface has two features: The start surface gets hit as a line from the side(LINE3), and from the front as a plane(PLANE5). The second surface gets hit from the front as a plane(PLANE8). The dimension should be .09. I check 2D distances and 3D distances from plane to plane, and from line to plane. All of them end up coming up with some weird numbers ranging from .03 to .29. Why would that happen?

[jkb_mcg]

probably needs to be 2d and try and make it perp. or parallel to the x or y axis...which ever one works.

[Wes Cisco]

2D perp to feature, unless you leveled to one of those planes, then perp to axis. HTH (Hope This Helps)

[#2#]

Workplane!

[Wes Cisco]

Workplane!

GOOD POINT GOODLUCK!

[#2#]

I have a program that checks a small distance of .09. One surface has two features: The start surface gets hit as a line from the side(LINE3), and from the front as a plane(PLANE5). The second surface gets hit from the front as a plane(PLANE8). The dimension should be .09. I check 2D distances and 3D distances from plane to plane, and from line to plane. All of them end up coming up with some weird numbers ranging from .03 to .29. Why would that happen?

Nevermind, I re-thought what I had typed here and it didn't make sense the second time so this is just taking up space now.

I'd still examine the workplane though.

[Wingman]

I have a program that checks a small distance of .09. One surface has two features: The start surface gets hit as a line from the side(LINE3), and from the front as a plane(PLANE5). The second surface gets hit from the front as a plane(PLANE8). The dimension should be .09. I check 2D distances and 3D distances from plane to plane, and from line to plane. All of them end up coming up with some weird numbers ranging from .03 to .29. Why would that happen?

You say this is the start surface? Do you level? Do you create pierce / intersection point of line and plane? How do you establish these TWO surfaces as your start surface?

WHat are you dimensioning here (which features and in what order to what axis)?

[operator1]

I create the features by taking hits on the part itself. I take hits on the surface twice: Once to create a line, and once to create a plane. I did that because I've been having problems with this dimension for the longest, and I figured maybe I'd get better results for the dimension if I used a line. Now, I don't know what to do other than create a whole bunch of dimension distances and pick the one that gets closest to .09.

I'm dimensioning a step in the part that has a distance of .09 inches. The part is sitting up, and the surfaces are hit in the positive Y axis(I believe). I take the hits for the line with the tip at A90B0. I take the hits for the plane at A90B90. When I take the hits for the line, the workplane is Yminus. When I take the hits for the plane, the workplane is X minus.

[#2#]

I create the features by taking hits on the part itself. I take hits on the surface twice: Once to create a line, and once to create a plane. I did that because I've been having problems with this dimension for the longest, and I figured maybe I'd get better results for the dimension if I used a line. Now, I don't know what to do other than create a whole bunch of dimension distances and pick the one that gets closest to .09.

I'm dimensioning a step in the part that has a distance of .09 inches. The part is sitting up, and the surfaces are hit in the positive Y axis(I believe). I take the hits for the line with the tip at A90B0. I take the hits for the plane at A90B90. When I take the hits for the line, the workplane is Yminus. When I take the hits for the plane, the workplane is X minus.

My suggestion of workplane was for which workplane you are in when you dimension it. If one of your planes' vector is 0,-1,0 and the other is0,1,0 then do a 2d distance in the z-plus workplane. Choose your two planes, select "to feature" and "perpendicular". That will give you the distance between the two planes along a line that is perpendicular to the second plane you selected. This distance (I believe) will be from the centroid of the second plane to a point on the first plane where that perp. line pierces it.

[Wingman]

I create the features by taking hits on the part itself. I take hits on the surface twice: Once to create a line, and once to create a plane. I did that because I've been having problems with this dimension for the longest, and I figured maybe I'd get better results for the dimension if I used a line. Now, I don't know what to do other than create a whole bunch of dimension distances and pick the one that gets closest to .09.

I'm dimensioning a step in the part that has a distance of .09 inches. The part is sitting up, and the surfaces are hit in the positive Y axis(I believe). I take the hits for the line with the tip at A90B0. I take the hits for the plane at A90B90. When I take the hits for the line, the workplane is Yminus. When I take the hits for the plane, the workplane is X minus.

Workplane has no effect of 3D features such as PLANE. BUT, why would you change Workplanes between these features?

Again, What are you dimensioning? Which features? What order? (These questions are important)

[Wingman]

I create the features by taking hits on the part itself. I take hits on the surface twice: Once to create a line, and once to create a plane. I did that because I've been having problems with this dimension for the longest, and I figured maybe I'd get better results for the dimension if I used a line. Now, I don't know what to do other than create a whole bunch of dimension distances and pick the one that gets closest to .09.

I'm dimensioning a step in the part that has a distance of .09 inches. The part is sitting up, and the surfaces are hit in the positive Y axis(I believe). I take the hits for the line with the tip at A90B0. I take the hits for the plane at A90B90. When I take the hits for the line, the workplane is Yminus. When I take the hits for the plane, the workplane is X minus.

If the line is running UP and Down (parallel to the plane) this should work OK.

Doa Dimension. Select the line as feature 1 and the plane as feature 2 and do a 2D to Feature. It should report what you want.

[operator1]

startup    =alignment/start,recall:, List= Yes
            Alignment/end
            Loadprobe/rickab
            Tip/t1a45b0, Shankijk=0, 0.7071, 0.7071, Angle=0
            Mode/manual
            Prehit/ 0.115
            Retract/ 0.08
            Check/ 0.4724,1
            Movespeed/ 80
            Scanspeed/ 2
            Fly/on,0.1181
            Workplane/zplus
            Mode/dcc
            Move/point,4.6723,5.0707,-26.4326
            Move/point,4.6744,5.0701,-26.4348
            Move/point,3.9318,2.3271,-27.0053
            Workplane/yminus
Plane1     =feat/plane,rect
            Theo/3.6771,1.7843,-27.9638,0.0879913,0.996056,0.0114045
            Actl/3.6834,1.8513,-27.9627,0.0815022,0.996609,0.0113111
            Meas/plane,6
            Hit/basic,3.7494,1.7691,-27.1916,0.0879913,0.996056,0.0114045,3.7558,1.8371,-27.1904,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,4.4326,1.717,-27.921,0.0879913,0.996056,0.0114045,4.4395,1.7886,-27.9197,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,4.3321,1.7335,-28.5849,0.0879913,0.996056,0.0114045,4.3388,1.8049,-28.5837,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,3.4229,1.8125,-28.4597,0.0879913,0.996056,0.0114045,3.4291,1.8778,-28.4587,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,2.9621,1.8497,-28.1565,0.0879913,0.996056,0.0114045,2.968,1.9121,-28.1556,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,3.1632,1.8239,-27.4692,0.0879913,0.996056,0.0114045,3.1693,1.8873,-27.4682,use Theo = Yes
            Endmeas/
            Move/point,3.4095,3.0611,-27.4683
            Move/point,2.2989,3.0609,-27.4683
Plane2     =feat/plane,rect
            Theo/2.3856,2.1601,-27.9503,0.0886756,0.9959911,0.0117585
            Actl/2.3913,2.2182,-27.9493,0.0804077,0.9966817,0.0126568
            Meas/plane,3
            Hit/basic,2.4068,2.1546,-27.6437,0.0886756,0.9959911,0.0117585,2.4126,2.2126,-27.6427,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,2.3347,2.165,-27.9791,0.0886756,0.9959911,0.0117585,2.3404,2.2226,-27.9781,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,2.4151,2.1608,-28.2281,0.0886756,0.9959911,0.0117585,2.4209,2.2193,-28.227,use Theo = Yes
            Endmeas/
            Move/point,2.4263,3.2257,-28.2271
            Move/point,7.056,3.4663,-17.0872
            Tip/t1a90b0, Shankijk=0, 1, 0, Angle=180
            Move/point,4.182,8.2645,-12.7042
            Move/point,4.182,8.2637,-23.1912
            Move/point,4.182,3.6858,-23.1913
            Move/point,3.2418,3.6863,-27.9389
            Move/point,3.7961,2.4245,-27.9391
Circle1    =feat/circle,rect,in,least_sqr
            Theo/3.7496,1.6987,-27.9234,0,-1,0,0.49
            Actl/3.7151,1.6987,-27.909,0,-1,0,0.4987
            Meas/circle,6,workplane
            Hit/basic,3.8104,1.7245,-28.1633,-0.2455996,0,0.9693714,3.8138,1.7245,-28.1396,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,3.559,1.7379,-28.0807,0.7712046,0,0.6365874,3.554,1.7379,-28.0979,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,3.5943,1.6915,-27.7291,0.6242214,0,-0.7812475,3.5778,1.6915,-27.7001,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,3.7594,1.6835,-27.6779,-0.0396282,0,-0.9992145,3.7707,1.6835,-27.666,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,3.9736,1.6837,-27.8162,-0.9020122,0,-0.4317106,3.953,1.6837,-27.8361,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,3.9496,1.6712,-28.0688,-0.8089788,0,0.5878378,3.923,1.6712,-28.0459,use Theo = Yes
            Endmeas/
            Move/point,3.7488,1.6025,-27.9343
Circle2    =feat/circle,rect,in,least_sqr
            Theo/3.7406,1.56,-27.9278,0,-1,0,0.49
            Actl/3.7071,1.56,-27.9106,0,-1,0,0.5005
            Meas/circle,5,workplane
            Hit/basic,3.4907,1.6024,-27.9361,0.9994537,0,0.0330498,3.4589,1.6024,-27.9428,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,3.6509,1.6024,-27.6937,0.3578827,0,-0.9337666,3.6489,1.6024,-27.6674,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,3.9605,1.6024,-27.8076,-0.8772652,0,-0.480006,3.9438,1.6024,-27.8282,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,3.9768,1.5945,-28.0101,-0.9443595,0,0.328915,3.9408,1.5945,-27.9991,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,3.7291,1.3984,-28.1785,0.0460242,0,0.9989403,3.7405,1.3984,-28.1588,use Theo = Yes
            Endmeas/
Cyl1       =feat/cylinder,rect,out,least_sqr
            Theo/3.7373,1.5593,-27.9269,-0.0861426,-0.9960744,-0.020376,0.49,0.3321
            Actl/3.7042,1.5638,-27.9113,-0.0783176,-0.9968276,-0.0141804,0.4998,0.3311
            Constr/cylinder,bf,circle1,circle2,,
            Move/point,3.7314,1.9961,-27.9292
            Move/point,3.7314,2.2882,-26.3742
            Move/point,3.2276,2.2856,-26.8154
            Move/point,3.2317,1.7098,-26.3079
Circle3    =feat/circle,rect,out,least_sqr
            Theo/3.7452,1.6296,-27.9224,0,-1,0,2.135
            Actl/3.7216,1.6296,-27.8964,0,-1,0,2.1068
            Meas/circle,5,workplane
            Hit/basic,3.1553,1.7098,-27.0443,-0.5575899,0,0.8301166,3.1366,1.7098,-27.0167,use Theo = Yes
            Move/circular
            Hit/basic,3.7238,1.6763,-26.8641,-0.0201946,0,0.9997961,3.7223,1.6763,-26.8468,use Theo = Yes
            Move/circular
            Hit/basic,4.2571,1.626,-26.9953,0.4833295,0,0.8754385,4.2543,1.626,-26.9965,use Theo = Yes
            Move/circular
            Hit/basic,4.5711,1.568,-27.2632,0.7815689,0,0.6238189,4.5764,1.568,-27.2564,use Theo = Yes
            Move/circular
            Hit/basic,4.7918,1.5679,-27.7625,0.9885252,0,0.151056,4.7609,1.568,-27.7653,use Theo = Yes
            Endmeas/
            Move/point,5.0104,1.568,-25.0703
            Move/point,2.1243,1.9877,-25.0702
            Move/point,2.341,2.979,-25.8639
            Move/point,2.3411,2.9539,-27.135
            Move/point,2.2026,2.0105,-27.2627
Line1      =feat/line,rect,unbnd
            Theo/2.1658,2.0105,-27.517,0.999967,0,-0.0081234
            Actl/2.166,2.0105,-27.4996,0.9999691,0,-0.0078623
            Meas/line,2,workplane
            Hit/basic,2.1658,2.0105,-27.517,0.0081234,0,0.999967,2.166,2.0105,-27.4996,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,2.4679,1.7277,-27.5195,0.0081234,0,0.999967,2.4682,1.7277,-27.502,use Theo = Yes
            Endmeas/
            Move/point,2.4705,2.9441,-27.4226
            Move/point,2.2705,2.8601,-28.5322
            Move/point,2.2703,2.0234,-28.5323
Line2      =feat/line,rect,unbnd
            Theo/2.2728,2.0232,-28.3291,0.9994056,0,-0.0344725
            Actl/2.273,2.0235,-28.3131,0.9997916,0,-0.0204146
            Meas/line,2,workplane
            Hit/basic,2.2728,2.0232,-28.3291,-0.0344725,0,-0.9994056,2.2724,2.0231,-28.3131,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,2.4697,1.7264,-28.3359,-0.0344725,0,-0.9994056,2.4695,1.7264,-28.3171,use Theo = Yes
            Endmeas/
            Move/point,2.1075,2.4263,-28.5089
            Move/point,1.843,2.7505,-27.6025
            Move/point,1.7401,1.7802,-27.6025
Line3      =feat/line,rect,unbnd
            Theo/2.0122,1.8084,-27.6012,0.0235789,0,-0.999722
            Actl/1.977,1.8084,-27.6023,0.021966,0,-0.9997587
            Meas/line,2,workplane
            Hit/basic,2.0122,1.8084,-27.6012,-0.999722,0,-0.0235789,1.977,1.8084,-27.6023,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,2.0268,1.9763,-28.2196,-0.999722,0,-0.0235789,1.9906,1.9763,-28.2205,use Theo = Yes
            Endmeas/
Point3     =feat/point,rect
            Theo/2.344,2.0168,-27.9254,0,0,1
            Actl/2.3443,2.017,-27.908,0,0,1
            Constr/point,mid,line1,line2
Line5      =feat/line,rect,unbnd
            Theo/3.7496,1.6987,-27.9234,-0.999999,0,-0.0013989
            Actl/3.7151,1.6987,-27.909,-0.9999997,0,0.0007656
            Constr/line,bf,2d,circle1,point3,,
            Move/point,1.0693,3.4936,-28.2208
A1         =alignment/start,recall:startup, List= Yes
            Alignment/level,yplus,plane1
            Alignment/rotate,xminus,to,line5,about,yplus
            Alignment/trans,xaxis,circle1
            Alignment/trans,zaxis,circle1
            Alignment/trans,yaxis,plane1
            Alignment/end
            Move/point,-2.8272,1.5499,6.1563
            Move/point,6.9094,2.8179,16.4869
            Move/point,6.9092,2.8181,16.4867
            Tip/t1a90b-75, Shankijk=0.9404, 0.3402, -0.0013, Angle=-90.0081
            Move/point,2.7849,3.818,9.1333
            Move/point,2.5705,1.4066,0.8978
            Move/point,0.127,0.6567,0.2881
            Workplane/xplus
Plane3     =feat/plane,rect
            Theo/-1.2689,0.1417,0.0476,0.94131,0.3375432,-0.0001427
            Actl/-1.2645,0.1429,0.0478,0.9393597,0.3429317,0.001132
            Meas/plane,4
            Hit/basic,-1.2527,0.0967,0.3255,0.94131,0.3375432,-0.0001427,-1.2483,0.0979,0.3255,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,-1.2859,0.1894,0.2183,0.94131,0.3375432,-0.0001427,-1.2821,0.1905,0.2186,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,-1.2511,0.0921,-0.0754,0.94131,0.3375432,-0.0001427,-1.2463,0.0934,-0.0751,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,-1.2857,0.1886,-0.278,0.94131,0.3375432,-0.0001427,-1.2812,0.1899,-0.2777,use Theo = Yes
            Endmeas/
            Move/point,-0.7888,0.2376,-0.3328
            Move/point,-0.7884,0.2777,2.7686
            Move/point,0.6346,1.2255,13.6978
            Tip/t1a90b22.5, Shankijk=-0.46, 0.8879, 0.0005, Angle=90.0165
            Move/point,-5.7952,2.8389,13.6853
            Move/point,-2.8055,2.2403,-0.412
            Move/point,-1.7449,0.9714,0.1736

[operator1]

plane4     =feat/plane,rect
            Theo/-1.6089,0.2045,0.0086,-0.4212736,0.9069329,0.001152
            Actl/-1.6079,0.2024,0.009,-0.4233682,0.9059572,0.0009324
            Meas/plane,4
            Hit/basic,-1.5453,0.2337,0.3408,-0.4212736,0.9069329,0.001152,-1.5443,0.2318,0.341,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,-1.6634,0.1791,0.0896,-0.4212736,0.9069329,0.001152,-1.6623,0.1769,0.0899,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,-1.5679,0.2237,-0.1285,-0.4212736,0.9069329,0.001152,-1.5669,0.2217,-0.128,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,-1.6591,0.1816,-0.2676,-0.4212736,0.9069329,0.001152,-1.658,0.1793,-0.2671,use Theo = Yes
            Endmeas/
            Move/point,-1.965,0.6782,-0.2731
            Move/point,-1.9645,0.705,1.8343
            Move/point,-0.1772,1.3498,6.3495
            Move/point,9.3861,2.2632,10.8248
            Tip/t1a90b90, Shankijk=-0.9964, -0.0852, 0.0014, Angle=90.0076
            Workplane/xminus
            Move/point,-3.7285,6.8505,10.7942
            Move/point,-4.1506,-0.2714,0.9109
            Move/point,-2.6552,-0.1088,0.2229
            Workplane/xminus
Plane5     =feat/plane,rect
            Theo/-1.8534,0.0291,0.0003,-0.9999997,0.000756,-0.0002314
            Actl/-1.7407,0.0291,0.0007,-0.9999988,-0.0010654,-0.0010981
            Meas/plane,4
            Hit/basic,-1.8536,-0.0533,0.331,-0.9999997,0.000756,-0.0002314,-1.741,-0.0533,0.3311,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,-1.8532,0.1256,0.1063,-0.9999997,0.000756,-0.0002314,-1.741,0.1257,0.1067,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,-1.8533,-0.0412,-0.1334,-0.9999997,0.000756,-0.0002314,-1.7405,-0.0412,-0.1329,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,-1.8534,0.0853,-0.3027,-0.9999997,0.000756,-0.0002314,-1.7404,0.0853,-0.3022,use Theo = Yes
            Endmeas/
            Move/point,-2.3004,0.0503,-0.3024
            Move/point,-2.2562,-0.4439,-0.296
            Move/point,-1.9812,-0.4104,0.3952
Plane8     =feat/plane,rect
            Theo/-1.7598,-0.2897,-0.007,-0.9999958,-0.0028889,0.0002458
            Actl/-1.6604,-0.2686,-0.0075,-0.9336143,-0.3579698,0.0148954
            Meas/plane,4
            Hit/basic,-1.7597,-0.2862,0.3091,-0.9999958,-0.0028889,0.0002458,-1.6514,-0.265,0.3086,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,-1.7598,-0.2729,0.1006,-0.9999958,-0.0028889,0.0002458,-1.6723,-0.2519,0.1001,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,-1.7597,-0.3262,-0.133,-0.9999958,-0.0028889,0.0002458,-1.6504,-0.3051,-0.1335,use Theo = Yes
            Hit/basic,-1.7599,-0.2736,-0.3049,-0.9999958,-0.0028889,0.0002458,-1.6674,-0.2525,-0.3052,use Theo = Yes
            Endmeas/
            Move/point,-3.3475,-0.4277,-0.3131
            Move/point,-3.391,-0.3102,9.0525
            Tip/t1a0b0, Shankijk=0.0014, 0.0001, 1, Angle=4.8869
            Move/point,1.6134,4.4803,17.0008
            Move/point,3.0555,7.0399,17.8648
Dim Dist7= 2d Distance From Line Line3 To Plane Plane8     (center To Center), No_radius  Units=in ,$
Graph=off  Text=off  Mult=10.00  Output=both
Ax   Nominal     +tol       -tol       Meas        Max        Min        Dev      Outtol   
M      0.0900     0.0050     0.0050     0.0880     0.3985     0.3246    -0.0020     0.0000 --#------dim Dist2= 2d Distance From Line Line3 To Plane Plane8     (center To Center), No_radius  Units=in ,$
Graph=off  Text=off  Mult=10.00  Output=both
Ax   Nominal     +tol       -tol       Meas        Max        Min        Dev      Outtol   
M      0.0900     0.0050     0.0050     0.0880     0.3985     0.3246    -0.0020     0.0000 --#------
Dim Dist3= 3d Distance From Line Line3 To Plane Plane8, No_radius  Units=in ,$
Graph=off  Text=off  Mult=10.00  Output=both
Ax   Nominal     +tol       -tol       Meas        Max        Min        Dev      Outtol   
M      0.0900     0.0050     0.0050     0.0378     0.0482     0.0197    -0.0522     0.0472 <--------
Dim Dist6= 3d Distance From Plane Plane5 To Plane Plane8, No_radius  Units=in ,$
Graph=off  Text=off  Mult=10.00  Output=both
Ax   Nominal     +tol       -tol       Meas        Max        Min        Dev      Outtol   
M      0.0900     0.0050     0.0050     0.0314     0.0642     0.0033    -0.0586     0.0536 <--------
Dim Dist8= 2d Distance From Plane Plane5 To Plane Plane8     (center To Center), No_radius  Units=in ,$
Graph=off  Text=off  Mult=10.00  Output=both
Ax   Nominal     +tol       -tol       Meas        Max        Min        Dev      Outtol   
M      0.0900     0.0050     0.0050     0.2979     0.4606     0.2597     0.2079     0.2029 -------->

[Wingman]

One thing I notice is that neither Plane 8 nor PLane 3 are SQUARE to your Alignment.
Looks like PLANE 3 is 0.040" out of Square over a small 3/8" area. Way off.
Looks like PLANE 8 is no better.

This would account for big differences between 2D and 3D values 'especially' since line 3 seems to be 27" away from it. Angles and projection build up quickly. Probably best to use 2D distance in a particular AXIS (X in this case) as 3D and 2D to Feature will take the angles of the plane into account. However, I would be seriously concerned about a 0.040" variation in the X Axis of any Feature.

HTH,

[#2#]

... since line 3 seems to be 27" away from it.

I think that is because line 3 is measured in a different alignment. It looks like the two planes are measured in the startup alignment and then line 3 is measured later on after another alignment is performed.