GD&T Training

[Bob Pierce]

I find their is alot to learn in applying GD&T to the CMM.
Alot of varying opinions on calculation methods, appropriate reporting etc.
Has anyone attended a course specific to PCDMIS?
I have seen a course listed by B&S but never scheduled.
How about Tec Ease?

[Don Henger]

Here is who we went to His name is Jim Medows
Click on his name to go to the web site

[kbotta]

I would caution you in trying to use BnS, (hex) for GD&T training as far as CMM applications. There software would be the 1st hint.
Some education ideas:
Tec-Ease (Don Day) www.tec-ease.com
Effective training Inc. (ETI) (Alex Krulikowski) www.etinews.com
Multi-Metrics (Bill Tandler) www.multimetrics.com
WES Education (Chuck Ferguson) www.gdt-help.com

All of these gentleman either serve, or have served in some branch of the the 14.5 Committee. Each has there strengths. My suggestion is to contact them, and see about on-site training. You will most likely need about 6-12 people to attend. If it's just you, then a visit by you will be needed to participate in a "class" of some sorts, or you could join in with another group.
In any case, these are all world class instructors - and you would do well by any.
HTH!
Kev

[#2#]

Both good suggestions above.

I would recomend you try for in-house training and try to get your engineers to attend as well. That way you will all be on the same page.

I found after attending GD&T training (before I only had a little on-the-job understanding) that a lot of the engineers here really had no idea of what they were doing. Since that time, they scheduled an on-site class which quite a few of the engineers attended. Hopefully, going forward, new drawings will be a little clearer.

For us, I think that the break even point was four people. That is to say, sending 4 people for offsite cost the same as having them come onsite to train 4. The advantage to onsite was that any over 4 they just had to pay for training materials and not for instruction. Does that make sense? If not, I can make up some numbers to try to explain more clearly.

[jjewell]

We have been providing exactly this kind of training along with our on site pc-dmis training. We teach you how to interpret and apply all the different GD & T datum structures to your cmm alignments and how to interpret and apply GD & T tolerances .

A practical method is the best method to learning gd & t. While a book is a great place to start, using real world prints, fixtures, parts and applications really helps you understand things.

We have plenty of experience working with and consulting with Engineers on creating datum schemes for many various applications.

[Joe Zastrow]

I took a class a few years back offered by Brown & Sharpe and found it to be excellent. I contribute this to the instructor Rob Jensen. Rob has a great understanding of GD&T and how to apply it to CMM programming. PC-DMIS has its issues but to place judgment on all aspects of there company is harsh and wrong. Brown & Sharpe has a bunch of great people working for them and supporting us here in the Milwaukee - Illinois area.

The only thing I would suggest would be to have the training on site. One engineer in the class can F it up for everyone. :^)

[Underspec]

Both good suggestions above.

I would recomend you try for in-house training and try to get your engineers to attend as well. That way you will all be on the same page.

I found after attending GD&T training (before I only had a little on-the-job understanding) that a lot of the engineers here really had no idea of what they were doing. Since that time, they scheduled an on-site class which quite a few of the engineers attended. Hopefully, going forward, new drawings will be a little clearer.

For us, I think that the break even point was four people. That is to say, sending 4 people for offsite cost the same as having them come onsite to train 4. The advantage to onsite was that any over 4 they just had to pay for training materials and not for instruction. Does that make sense? If not, I can make up some numbers to try to explain more clearly.

Goodluck dragging your engineers out to learn GD&T.

[inspector212]

Goodluck dragging your engineers out to learn GD&T.

They won't have time to take the class but they always have time to change the prints. Go figure.

[#2#]

They won't have time to take the class but they always have time to change the prints. Go figure.

They don't have time to change prints here. That is why I wish they would have someone actually review them before they release them.

I was in a meeting the other day. Thay handed me a print and immediately I saw 3 errors on it. One was that the notes were all numbered the same. Sure that isn't a big deal but still... The second was that there was a 'triangle note' symbol on the drawing with no corresponding note??? The third was that there wasn't a tolerance block - no tolerances at all!

That is the first time I have seen that drawing. It was released in 1997 and has not been revised since then.

[Don Henger]

I feel your pain!!! We were one of the Big three. Back then we had are catia dept. at the plant. NOW we tell the engineer who gave us the parts about the print and it is to much of a hasle to even begin to get it changed. Go through him which he has to call Michigan engineer that will have to let the customer know they want to change the print and also ask Germany engineers if it is O.K. To much greif There I have wined for the day...!!! WTF

[kbotta]

I feel your pain!!! We were one of the Big three. Back then we had are catia dept. at the plant. NOW we tell the engineer who gave us the parts about the print and it is to much of a hasle to even begin to get it changed. Go through him which he has to call Michigan engineer that will have to let the customer know they want to change the print and also ask Germany engineers if it is O.K. To much greif There I have wined for the day...!!! WTF

Yeah! Then think of the poor poor pitfull schlep-rock that supplies to you, that needs a drawing change. Sheeze! (ha ha lol, j/Kidding!)

[Don Henger]

Yeah! Then think of the poor poor pitfull schlep-rock that supplies to you, that needs a drawing change. Sheeze! (ha ha lol, j/Kidding!)

I here ya Kbotta!!! I wish I could help but my hands are tide. By the way I seen that engineer we talked about and I told him to say hello if he went down to see you.

[AuRules]

Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents. The last company I worked for machined parts for the big 3. Over my 14 years before they shut the doors, were knock down dragouts between quality inspectors and manufacturing eng. on GD&T because our quality eng. did not know. Training class at your facility with all parties involved would be the best decision by far.
The only good thing for me is now-here making propellers is that our 500 blueprints are so old they just use +/- tolerances this was before GD&T- when he was just a sperm.

[kbotta]

I here ya Kbotta!!! I wish I could help but my hands are tide. By the way I seen that engineer we talked about and I told him to say hello if he went down to see you.

Cool!