Features &/or move points not updating

[T.Elder]

Programmers,

I am interested in "saving alignments" and "recalling" them in other programs. However when I recall a saved alignment either the move points below the recalled alignment will not update or the features will not. This happens when I insert the recalled alignment into an exisiting program.

If I write a new program using the saved and recalled alignment the program works as expected.

I am currently using pcdmis 4.1. I had tried this with 3.7 and had the same issues.

Tech support tells me this is being addressed in 4.3.??????

Anyone experience this and have found a fix around it?

[Underspec]

When you insert an alignment into an existing program, make sure you click "YES" to update all the commands below. I usually check one or two features via "CTRL-E" to make sure it's right. I've sometimes had to tweak them because it does change the x,y,z of features a bit. Move points however should be updated if you do the above.

[T.Elder]

Thanks, I do click "yes" to update all commands below, however as mentioned the move points often do not update or the features will not.
Techsupport suggested relearning the move points, too much trouble to suit me. If no one has a fix for this I will wait and hope for a correction in a later version.

Thanks for the input....

[#2#]

Hmm, I'm not exactly sure how recalling saved alignments works.

Perhaps there is a setting in the F5 setup window that is causing them to not update.

Also, recalling an alignment and saying 'yes' to update commands will only update the commands between the inserted alignment and the next alignment. So, if you insert an alignment right before an existing alignment and answer 'yes' to update the commands after the alignment, nothing will change.

Could it be that the alignment needs to be executed prior to the nominals being updated?

[craiger_ny]

Not sure if this will help because I am not sure what exactly you are doing. I only have one external alignment call and it is the first line of code I add after my settings. After that I create a constructed point of type 'at origin' then I align X,Y,Z to my constructed point at the origin I created. Then all of my alignment recalls are from that alignment not the external one.

Might not help you at all but that is my pratice and it keeps me out of trouble.

[T.Elder]

ere is what I am doing, keep in mind I am a novice programmer and many of these programs I am dealing with are inherited.

Here goes: our existing program will begin from the cmm's home alignment. A fixture is measured and an alignment created from the fixture. A part placed on the fixture and measured and an alignment created from part datums.

We have several programs that use the same fixture. If the fixture moves I must take manual hits on fixture to find part again. I have to do this in every program using that fixture.

My hopes were (after learning of the "saving alignment" feature) that I could write a program measuring the fixture, save the alignment, and insert this saved alignment into all my programs via the "recall alignment" feature. Which in fact I can do so, saving, naming and recalling the alignment worked fine, however I have not been succesful with my features and/or move points updating correctly.

I can however rewrite all my programs and use this "recall'' alignment" feature and it will work. Just trying to avoid rewriting all of them.

The advantage is this will allow us to "refresh" all our programs manual alignments by measuring the fixture one time. Every program recalling this alignment would be refreshed, in theory....

Hope I expalined this well enough.

[#2#]

I'm a little confused as to why you would need to update the commands. It sounds as if currently you have a fixture which is measured at the beginning of each program. You just want to make that a seperate program correct.

I guess if the fixture is manually measured differently in each program that could cause a problem. In that case, I'd program in the same features in each program as will be used for your 'recalled alignment'. Insert a new alignment in the program using the new features that is the same as the 'recalled alignment' and answer 'yes' to updating after the alignment. Then, just after that alignment, recall the external alignment. Don't answer 'yes' because everthing should be in the correct spot. Now, delete all the manual features before the external alignment recall.

Oh, and I hope you are making a copy of your program to try this out with in case everything gets totally hosed you can go back and start fresh with another copy of the old program.

[Matthew D. Hoedeman]

ere is what I am doing, keep in mind I am a novice programmer and many of these programs I am dealing with are inherited.

Here goes: our existing program will begin from the cmm's home alignment. A fixture is measured and an alignment created from the fixture. A part placed on the fixture and measured and an alignment created from part datums.

We have several programs that use the same fixture. If the fixture moves I must take manual hits on fixture to find part again. I have to do this in every program using that fixture.

My hopes were (after learning of the "saving alignment" feature) that I could write a program measuring the fixture, save the alignment, and insert this saved alignment into all my programs via the "recall alignment" feature. Which in fact I can do so, saving, naming and recalling the alignment worked fine, however I have not been succesful with my features and/or move points updating correctly.

I can however rewrite all my programs and use this "recall'' alignment" feature and it will work. Just trying to avoid rewriting all of them.

The advantage is this will allow us to "refresh" all our programs manual alignments by measuring the fixture one time. Every program recalling this alignment would be refreshed, in theory....

Hope I expalined this well enough.

NOPE, if I understand what you are asking, it will not work. IF you have to move the fixture and re-align it, ALL the features in the program (no matter if you use external alignments or if it is part of the program) will stay in 3-D space to MACHINE XYZ values until they are re-measured. They will not land back on the part until they get measured again. In the same vein, changing the alignment to see how it will effect the check points can not be done either. In V3.2063 and before, they DID update to a moved/altered alignment but with the advent on V3.5, ALL features are tied to machine XYZ then converted to alignment XYZ, in V3.2063 and before, they were tied only to the alignment, and no attention was paid to machine XYZ for the features that were programmed to an alignment.

[#2#]

NOPE, if I understand what you are asking, it will not work. IF you have to move the fixture and re-align it, ALL the features in the program (no matter if you use external alignments or if it is part of the program) will stay in 3-D space to MACHINE XYZ values until they are re-measured. They will not land back on the part until they get measured again. In the same vein, changing the alignment to see how it will effect the check points can not be done either. In V3.2063 and before, they DID update to a moved/altered alignment but with the advent on V3.5, ALL features are tied to machine XYZ then converted to alignment XYZ, in V3.2063 and before, they were tied only to the alignment, and no attention was paid to machine XYZ for the features that were programmed to an alignment.

That doesn't make sense to me. If I am reading you correctly and if I understand the reason for being able to recall external alignments correctly, recalling an external alignment would never work.

[T.Elder]

QUOTE=Matthew D. Hoedeman;67673]NOPE, if I understand what you are asking, it will not work. IF you have to move the fixture and re-align it, ALL the features in the program (no matter if you use external alignments or if it is part of the program) will stay in 3-D space to MACHINE XYZ values until they are re-measured. They will not land back on the part until they get measured again. In the same vein, changing the alignment to see how it will effect the check points can not be done either. In V3.2063 and before, they DID update to a moved/altered alignment but with the advent on V3.5, ALL features are tied to machine XYZ then converted to alignment XYZ, in V3.2063 and before, they were tied only to the alignment, and no attention was paid to machine XYZ for the features that were programmed to an alignment.[/QUOTE][/I][/I]

To prove this I wrote a fixture program and created an alignment, saved and named this alignment. I then wrote a part program in which I inserted the recalled/saved alignment in the beginning of the program and ran the part program in dc. After doing so, I intentionally skewed the fixture significantly and went to my fixture program and manually measured the fixture.

After which I closed and opened my part program and the program had updated to the skewed alignment and measured the part appropriately.

[Matthew D. Hoedeman]

QUOTE=Matthew D. Hoedeman;67673]NOPE, if I understand what you are asking, it will not work. IF you have to move the fixture and re-align it, ALL the features in the program (no matter if you use external alignments or if it is part of the program) will stay in 3-D space to MACHINE XYZ values until they are re-measured. They will not land back on the part until they get measured again. In the same vein, changing the alignment to see how it will effect the check points can not be done either. In V3.2063 and before, they DID update to a moved/altered alignment but with the advent on V3.5, ALL features are tied to machine XYZ then converted to alignment XYZ, in V3.2063 and before, they were tied only to the alignment, and no attention was paid to machine XYZ for the features that were programmed to an alignment.

[/I][/I]

To prove this I wrote a fixture program and created an alignment, saved and named this alignment. I then wrote a part program in which I inserted the recalled/saved alignment in the beginning of the program and ran the part program in dc. After doing so, I intentionally skewed the fixture significantly and went to my fixture program and manually measured the fixture.

After which I closed and opened my part program and the program had updated to the skewed alignment and measured the part appropriately.[/QUOTE]

It will measure correctly, however, until the points have BEEN measured, they WILL show 'off-in-space', their relationship to the OLD alignment. I see it every day. The nominals and vectors will still all be the same as they ever-were, but until you measure them, they will retain their old, machine XYZ orientation.

[Wingman]

ere is what I am doing, keep in mind I am a novice programmer and many of these programs I am dealing with are inherited.

Here goes: our existing program will begin from the cmm's home alignment. A fixture is measured and an alignment created from the fixture. A part placed on the fixture and measured and an alignment created from part datums.

We have several programs that use the same fixture. If the fixture moves I must take manual hits on fixture to find part again. I have to do this in every program using that fixture.

My hopes were (after learning of the "saving alignment" feature) that I could write a program measuring the fixture, save the alignment, and insert this saved alignment into all my programs via the "recall alignment" feature. Which in fact I can do so, saving, naming and recalling the alignment worked fine, however I have not been succesful with my features and/or move points updating correctly.

I can however rewrite all my programs and use this "recall'' alignment" feature and it will work. Just trying to avoid rewriting all of them.

The advantage is this will allow us to "refresh" all our programs manual alignments by measuring the fixture one time. Every program recalling this alignment would be refreshed, in theory....

Hope I expalined this well enough.

If the Existing Program did not cantain the fixture alignment then what you are doing will potentially be very problematic.

It sounds like you have existing programs that sit on a fixture. However, there is no fixture alignment provided in the program and the initial points are taken from machine zero. This prevents you from being able to move the fixture around on the table.

If that is true then you will need to do the following:

1) Isolate all moves and points taken BEFORE the first Internal Program Alignment. Re teach those points in the recalled External Alignment.

2) Change the FIRST Alignment Command in your program to recall the Fixture alignment instead of the reset or startup alignment.
This should synchronize everything and your program should run.

However, if you answered YES to Updating at any time before you do this it will not work. You need to answer NO to updating at every step in this instruction.

HTH
Bill

[Underspec]

You said your move points and features do not update even after answering yes to the alignment updating. I suspect you will need to edit the rest of the alignments to make sure each one recalls the previous, including your external.

I know exactly what you are trying to accomplish. I have fixturing programs as well. Makes life so much easier when you can move things around. Only thing is you have to be careful after you move fixtures is collision vs other fixtures and bridge with tip rotations

[T.Elder]

I'm a little confused as to why you would need to update the commands. It sounds as if currently you have a fixture which is measured at the beginning of each program. You just want to make that a seperate program correct.

I guess if the fixture is manually measured differently in each program that could cause a problem. In that case, I'd program in the same features in each program as will be used for your 'recalled alignment'. Insert a new alignment in the program using the new features that is the same as the 'recalled alignment' and answer 'yes' to updating after the alignment. Then, just after that alignment, recall the external alignment. Don't answer 'yes' because everthing should be in the correct spot. Now, delete all the manual features before the external alignment recall.

Oh, and I hope you are making a copy of your program to try this out with in case everything gets totally hosed you can go back and start fresh with another copy of the old program.

Thanks, I will give this a try. I had not thought of this exact arrangment and not answering "yes" to update commands....

And yes I always do "save as" and rename as test when playing with programs.

[#2#]

Thanks, I will give this a try. I had not thought of this exact arrangment and not answering "yes" to update commands....

And yes I always do "save as" and rename as test when playing with programs.

One thing though, before you delete that first alignment in the program, you will need to change the first alignment below the external alignment to reference the external alignment.