Problem aligning Iges - Step files

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  • Problem aligning Iges - Step files

    Hi

    When I import a Iges or step model file, I need to be able to set up my alignment. (oh yea for got to say I am new at this, I will be getting traing soon but need to know this now) OK so I import a Iges or Step model. Then I proceed to set up some hits (via computer) making a plane and some lines. I then run through with the probe and take hits at these points with the CMM and the actual part. But when I am done it take the plane and lines I put on the model and moves them somewhere else in the screen.

    My question basicly is How do I Start when I have a model. I have read through the referance manual but no help. Does someone have a nice Tutorial for this or can maybe give me some good steps, to help me get started.


    and can some one please explain the Cad = Part feature
    Equating CAD to Measured Part Data
    The Operation | Graphics Display Window | Cad Equals Part menu option (or the CAD = Part
    button on the Alignment Utilities dialog box) links CAD data to the measured data. This option is
    only available after a created alignment places the part origin/orientation at the same location as
    the CAD origin/orientation. PCDMIS
    offers the CAD EQUALS PART option in two areas (also
    see "CAD Equals Part" within the Alignment option). Select this option and PCDMIS
    will display
    the measured data on top of the CAD data. It will use the CAD data to help inspect the part.
    Once the Cad Equals Part option has been used on a part program, the CAD Equals Part menu
    option will be selected.
    how do i do the
    This option is
    only available after a created alignment places the part origin/orientation at the same location as
    the CAD origin/orientation.

    thanks

    And sorry for the Nubish Questions


    Matt
    Last edited by scorter; 06-19-2007, 10:14 PM.

  • #2
    Many don't recommend the cad=part. Import model, take points manually in program, run them and take points manually on physical part, create alignment, and you should be set.
    I used to be high on life but I built up a tolerance.

    Brown & Sharpe Global Advantage
    PCDMIS CAD++ v2011mr2
    PH10MQ/SP600M


    sigpic

    Comment


    • #3
      I am with underspec, i am pretty new and i tried using that cad equals part in a few of my first programs and it just messes things all up most times than not. If anyone that works there with you has went to class see if they have the manuals from class and then take that and the dmis block that you should have gotten with the machine and try some things with that. That helps get the idea. HTH
      sigpic Great stuff!!!

      Comment


      • #4
        When you import your cad is it in the same orientation shown on the screen as it sets on your table?
        If not rotate it to show the same then under edit do machine axis = part axis
        Take your manual hits and do the alignment then go to dcc mode and take your hits to build your alignment and cad=part should work make sure that your points for your alignment will be the same as the part.
        sigpic
        if you had soap on a rope it would be tied to yer ankle

        Comment


        • #5
          I allways insert Machine(DEA Global Performance 09-20-08; must have created it by myself).
          When importing inside STARTUP alignment mostely models are far off the table(position in a vehicle...)
          I first rotate it by one or two axes to level with the machine.
          Then translate by all axes to get rough position(10-20mm)
          Creating significant Surface Point helps me to get the model within 1mm(maybe more points...)
          Works allways, dont need no exotic fixture or worse
          No manual touchig, no cad=part, I just put the part approximately where CAD Window shows

          Comment


          • #6
            Ok well even with out using the Cad = Part,
            take points manually in program, run them and take points manually on physical part, create alignment, and you should be set.
            this is one of the things that doesnt seem to work

            when I do this after doing the alignment. the stuff I manualy hit on the model and the part it self dont ever seem to match up

            thanks

            Comment


            • #7
              The CAD is in CAR space and your taking hits in machine space.

              Create a basic 1-2-3 Alignment then add rotations to get your axis system set up EXACTLy the same as the CAR space axis system, then do offsets to set your origin at the CAR space origin. THEN do a CAD = PART.

              Bill

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by scorter View Post
                Ok well even with out using the Cad = Part, this is one of the things that doesnt seem to work

                when I do this after doing the alignment. the stuff I manualy hit on the model and the part it self dont ever seem to match up

                thanks
                Sorry to be so short today, but they got the wet noodle out and I can't stop lest I be beat with it. Anyways, have you tried iterative alignments?
                Here is a link to a document that may help you out.

                Go HERE
                sigpic

                James Mannes

                Comment


                • #9
                  Why is it that whenever someone asks about CAD=PART the only answers they get are alternate ways to align the part? Why don't we answer the questions first THEN give alternate ways to get aligned. I use any and all methods that work for me depending on the job. Even though some of the Gurus on here don't seem to understand how it works, CAD=PART is a VERY good alignment method. You just have to understand how it works and apparently the majority on here don't seem to have that understanding. There is absolutely NO reason to change your machine axis' or to move CAD origins or any of that if you understand what you're doing it's simple.

                  Iterative is A solution, changing axis' is A solution, BUT he asked about CAD=PART.

                  The basics are as follow for a CAD = PART type alignment.

                  1) Throw whatever you're measuring on the table and anywhere it lands is perfectly fine. Disregard axis direction of the part and the machine at this point.
                  2) Go into the CAD that you've loaded and before you've done ANYTHING, pick the locations of your datums B and C. Write them down.
                  3) Look at the Triheadron on the screen and note the axis directions, it may help when you're starting out to mark the directions on your part or on your gage.
                  4) Pick up an manual alignment of some kind. In this alignment, add rotations to make your axis' point the same direction of the CAD axis'.
                  5) pick up your datum B/4 way or whatever
                  6) create another alignment with this feature as your ORIGIN for all 3 axis, add offsets to make the hole XYZs read the same as the CAD feature did.
                  7) Do CAD=PART.
                  8) Run a fully automatic DCC alignment using your datum features and again, do a CAD=PART.

                  It isn't hard, where the part or widget or whatever is on the table makes ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE.

                  Give it a try sometime it works VERY well.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Alignments:

                    First of all, to do ANY alignment, 3-2-1 or iterative, you MUST have XYZ values for whatever you use for the alignment.

                    Step #1
                    Do this no matter WHAT type of alignment you are going to do.
                    1) Place the part on the table the way it will sit for your inspection
                    2) Import your model data BEFORE you do any measuring
                    3) Using the CTRL-F3 option (3-D rotate), rotate the cad data until it matches the way the part sits on the machine, remembering that as you look at the screen you are looking DOWN on the machine
                    4) Once you have the cad data rotate (you are actually ONLY rotating the VIEW of the cad data), use F5 to open the setup options.
                    5) Go to the Part/Machine tab and while looking at the 3-D rotate cube, set your CAD to MACHINE axis
                    6) Click OK
                    7) Set your workplane to the ‘top’ of the cube (if the top, facing YOU face of the cube is X-, use the X- workplane)

                    You are now ready to do an alignment.

                    Iterative alignment
                    1) You need to know WHAT the datums are that you have to use for alignment. Use CTRL-F to open the AUTO FEATURES window
                    2) Select the type of feature you are going to use (vector, surface, circle, etc.) and pick that feature from the model
                    3) Create the feature, BUT DO NOT MEASURE IT!
                    4) Continue until you have all the features you need for your alignment, remember, ALL circular feature types NEED a minimum of 3 surface sample hits (circles, cylinders, cones, slots)
                    5) Go into the alignment and then into ITERATIVE alignment
                    6) Select the (minimum of) 3 ‘level’ features
                    7) Select the (minimum of) 2 ‘rotate’ features
                    8) Select the (minimum of) 1 ‘origin’ feature
                    9) Set the tolerance to high values, I use 10mm radius and 1mm fixture
                    10) OK out of the iterative window and the alignment window
                    11) You are now aligned
                    12) Turn on DCC mode and repeat steps 1 to 10, making the program executable, meaning it will run without crashing. HOWEVER, for the tolerances, at this point, I use 0.5 for radius and 0.05 for fixture. ALSO, mark the MEASURE ALL ALWAYS box in the iterative window
                    13) Now, program the checks of the part

                    3-2-1 alignment (mostly for holding fixtures)
                    This is a very easy alignment, however, you will have to think back to 2nd or 3rd grade when they taught you to use a number line (you’ll see)
                    1) All the alignment features on the fixture SHOULD have XYZ values stamped on them. For this example, I will use a plane, and 2 lines (top corner of the fixture base)
                    2) Measure the plane, making sure that all the touches are EXACTLY where you want them to be
                    3) Measure a line (the longer edge of the base) for the ROTATE, making sure of the DIRECTION of the line
                    4) Measure the second edge of the base (direction makes no difference)
                    5) Construct a point at the intersection of the 2 lines
                    6) Now, you need to know exactly WHAT each of those features represent. We will say that the PLANE is for the X+ axis, the rotate line points in the Y+ direction (first to last point taken on the line) and we need to know they XYZ value for that corner of the fixture base
                    7) Open the alignment window
                    8) Level X+ to the plane
                    9) Rotate Y+ ABOUT the X+ axis to the rotate line
                    10) Set the X origin to the plane
                    11) Set the Y axis to the corner point
                    12) Set the Z axis to the corner point
                    13) Now, it is time to offset the origins. This is where the number line comes into play
                    IF the X value for the top of the base is equal to 1250mm, then you need to offset the X origin –1250mm. What you are doing is telling Pcdmis the direction (in this case -) and the amount to move the ZERO point, which right now is located at the corner of the base. This will make the base equal to X1250.

                    Do this for each of the axis, remembering that you are telling it the DIRECTION and AMOUNT to move the origin AWAY from where you have the origin set to.

                    So, for the corner values of the fixture at X1250, Y-250 and Z2321, your offsets will be X-1250, Y250 and Z-2321

                    14) Click on CAD=PART
                    15) Close the alignment window.
                    You model should now be ‘floating’ in space about the alignment features just like it does on the fixture.
                    16) Go into DCC mode and program the alignment as an executable program (one that will run without crashing). The reason for this is simple, the machine will give better, more accurate touches than you, the operator can. The speed of the touch CAN and DOES have a big impact on the final results Pcdmis see for the touch. Faster or slower can change the comp of the point, so use DCC. Not only that, but if you have to re-home the machine or re-calibrate the probes (for whatever reason), you need ONLY run the DCC portion of the alignment, the manual can be left un-done, as long as the fixture has not been moved on the table
                    16) Program and check the part.

                    I use non-iterative alignments almost exclusively and I never have any problems or issues with them. I also keep the alignment as a separate program, saving the alignment to an external file, then recalling that external file in my check programs. In this way, I can have multiple programs to check various portions/operations of the part WITHOUT the need to align multiple times. Sure, you can cram it all into one program, but that will slow Pcdmis down. Also, by using separate check programs, I can send the various data sets to different Datapage files.
                    sigpic
                    Originally posted by AndersI
                    I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Dont' you have anything to do Matt?
                      I used to be high on life but I built up a tolerance.

                      Brown & Sharpe Global Advantage
                      PCDMIS CAD++ v2011mr2
                      PH10MQ/SP600M


                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Underspec View Post
                        Dont' you have anything to do Matt?
                        Been working on that since I saw the initial post, took me a while to do it, wokring it in when I can.
                        sigpic
                        Originally posted by AndersI
                        I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JamesMannes View Post
                          Sorry to be so short today, but they got the wet noodle out and I can't stop lest I be beat with it. Anyways, have you tried iterative alignments?
                          Here is a link to a document that may help you out.

                          Go HERE
                          Originally posted by Bill McCafferty View Post
                          Why is it that whenever someone asks about CAD=PART the only answers they get are alternate ways to align the part? Why don't we answer the questions first THEN give alternate ways to get aligned. I use any and all methods that work for me depending on the job. Even though some of the Gurus on here don't seem to understand how it works, CAD=PART is a VERY good alignment method. You just have to understand how it works and apparently the majority on here don't seem to have that understanding. There is absolutely NO reason to change your machine axis' or to move CAD origins or any of that if you understand what you're doing it's simple.

                          Iterative is A solution, changing axis' is A solution, BUT he asked about CAD=PART.



                          Give it a try sometime it works VERY well.
                          I am fully capable of utilizing CAD=PART. I offered another, easy solution. He is new. Perhaps he would like to know about iteraive alignments?
                          sigpic

                          James Mannes

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Matthew D. Hoedeman View Post
                            Alignments:

                            First of all, to do ANY alignment, 3-2-1 or iterative, you MUST have XYZ values for whatever you use for the alignment.

                            Step #1
                            Do this no matter WHAT type of alignment you are going to do.
                            1) Place the part on the table the way it will sit for your inspection
                            2) Import your model data BEFORE you do any measuring
                            3) Using the CTRL-F3 option (3-D rotate), rotate the cad data until it matches the way the part sits on the machine, remembering that as you look at the screen you are looking DOWN on the machine
                            4) Once you have the cad data rotate (you are actually ONLY rotating the VIEW of the cad data), use F5 to open the setup options.
                            5) Go to the Part/Machine tab and while looking at the 3-D rotate cube, set your CAD to MACHINE axis
                            6) Click OK
                            7) Set your workplane to the ‘top’ of the cube (if the top, facing YOU face of the cube is X-, use the X- workplane)

                            You are now ready to do an alignment.

                            Iterative alignment
                            1) You need to know WHAT the datums are that you have to use for alignment. Use CTRL-F to open the AUTO FEATURES window
                            2) Select the type of feature you are going to use (vector, surface, circle, etc.) and pick that feature from the model
                            3) Create the feature, BUT DO NOT MEASURE IT!
                            4) Continue until you have all the features you need for your alignment, remember, ALL circular feature types NEED a minimum of 3 surface sample hits (circles, cylinders, cones, slots)
                            5) Go into the alignment and then into ITERATIVE alignment
                            6) Select the (minimum of) 3 ‘level’ features
                            7) Select the (minimum of) 2 ‘rotate’ features
                            8) Select the (minimum of) 1 ‘origin’ feature
                            9) Set the tolerance to high values, I use 10mm radius and 1mm fixture
                            10) OK out of the iterative window and the alignment window
                            11) You are now aligned
                            12) Turn on DCC mode and repeat steps 1 to 10, making the program executable, meaning it will run without crashing. HOWEVER, for the tolerances, at this point, I use 0.5 for radius and 0.05 for fixture. ALSO, mark the MEASURE ALL ALWAYS box in the iterative window
                            13) Now, program the checks of the part

                            3-2-1 alignment (mostly for holding fixtures)
                            This is a very easy alignment, however, you will have to think back to 2nd or 3rd grade when they taught you to use a number line (you’ll see)
                            1) All the alignment features on the fixture SHOULD have XYZ values stamped on them. For this example, I will use a plane, and 2 lines (top corner of the fixture base)
                            2) Measure the plane, making sure that all the touches are EXACTLY where you want them to be
                            3) Measure a line (the longer edge of the base) for the ROTATE, making sure of the DIRECTION of the line
                            4) Measure the second edge of the base (direction makes no difference)
                            5) Construct a point at the intersection of the 2 lines
                            6) Now, you need to know exactly WHAT each of those features represent. We will say that the PLANE is for the X+ axis, the rotate line points in the Y+ direction (first to last point taken on the line) and we need to know they XYZ value for that corner of the fixture base
                            7) Open the alignment window
                            8) Level X+ to the plane
                            9) Rotate Y+ ABOUT the X+ axis to the rotate line
                            10) Set the X origin to the plane
                            11) Set the Y axis to the corner point
                            12) Set the Z axis to the corner point
                            13) Now, it is time to offset the origins. This is where the number line comes into play
                            IF the X value for the top of the base is equal to 1250mm, then you need to offset the X origin –1250mm. What you are doing is telling Pcdmis the direction (in this case -) and the amount to move the ZERO point, which right now is located at the corner of the base. This will make the base equal to X1250.

                            Do this for each of the axis, remembering that you are telling it the DIRECTION and AMOUNT to move the origin AWAY from where you have the origin set to.

                            So, for the corner values of the fixture at X1250, Y-250 and Z2321, your offsets will be X-1250, Y250 and Z-2321

                            14) Click on CAD=PART
                            15) Close the alignment window.
                            You model should now be ‘floating’ in space about the alignment features just like it does on the fixture.
                            16) Go into DCC mode and program the alignment as an executable program (one that will run without crashing). The reason for this is simple, the machine will give better, more accurate touches than you, the operator can. The speed of the touch CAN and DOES have a big impact on the final results Pcdmis see for the touch. Faster or slower can change the comp of the point, so use DCC. Not only that, but if you have to re-home the machine or re-calibrate the probes (for whatever reason), you need ONLY run the DCC portion of the alignment, the manual can be left un-done, as long as the fixture has not been moved on the table
                            16) Program and check the part.

                            I use non-iterative alignments almost exclusively and I never have any problems or issues with them. I also keep the alignment as a separate program, saving the alignment to an external file, then recalling that external file in my check programs. In this way, I can have multiple programs to check various portions/operations of the part WITHOUT the need to align multiple times. Sure, you can cram it all into one program, but that will slow Pcdmis down. Also, by using separate check programs, I can send the various data sets to different Datapage files.

                            Matt you should post this in Pcdmis code samples or some where that is easily accessible for everyone. If any of these methods are followed I can not see anyone having problems with their alignments.
                            B & S XCEL 7-10-7
                            Sharpe32 Controller
                            PH10MQ & ACR1 Toolchanger
                            TP20 & TP2 Probes
                            Pcdmis CAD++ 3.7mr3, 4.3mr1, 2009mr1, 2010mr1
                            Datapage RT 3.33
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Underspec View Post
                              Dont' you have anything to do Matt?
                              Bwah ha ha ha ha, good one.
                              <internet bumper sticker goes here>

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