Alignment Update Revisit

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  • Alignment Update Revisit

    A couple users have stated that they almost always answer YES when PC DMIS asks to Update Program to new Alignment when making an alignment change. I have always said no. I am trying to understand how YES is good because I would love to answer YES and be done with it. However, please consider the following simple scenario.

    Part Program Revision: Radius Cutout added for clearance. I want to translate alignment to center of Radius and grab radial points to define this new radius. So:
    I scroll to a logical place in program where the slot can be captured with minimal CMM Movement and I enter a translation to the new alignment coordinates for the new Radius. PC DMIS asks me if I want to update program to new alignment.
    From Here I say NO. Presumably others would say YES.
    I capture the Radius and recall the Initial Alignment saying NO to every alignment update (if any). Works great.

    Now, If I had said YES then PC DMIS would change everything until the next RECALL Command. PC DMIS would continue doing this until I recalled the initial Alignment and would then ask me again. Presumabl;y I would say yes and then everything would be written cack to the program as it was before I did anything?

    That is where I take exception. If it was definitely correct before I did anything then I personally do not see the advantage of having PC DMIS calculate changes etc only to go back to where I was in the first place and then 'trust' that everything is exactly as it was. Basically, 'If it ain't broke then why fix it'? Besides, as much as we might argue the point, internal translations and rotations are not perfect and the end result is almost certainly guaranteed to be different from the initial starting point. BTW, for me the undo button has proven not to be a perfect undo.

    Now I can see if I make a mistake and forget to change alignment etc and want to translate afterward. Then I recall the Current Alignment, go back and change to desired alignment and press OK. PC DMIS updates until the Recall Command and I have fixed my error.

    Please, if there is an advantage to using this regularly I would like to understand it. Especially since it appears in the later versions of PC DMIS you can tell PC DMIS not to ask you this question anymore.

    Thanks in advance,
    Bill
    Bill Jarrells
    A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. - Mark Twain

  • #2
    "where the slot can be captured "

    Do you mean radius?
    sigpic GDTPS - 0584

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Wingman View Post
      A couple users have stated that they almost always answer YES when PC DMIS asks to Update Program to new Alignment when making an alignment change. I have always said no. I am trying to understand how YES is good because I would love to answer YES and be done with it. However, please consider the following simple scenario.

      Part Program Revision: Radius Cutout added for clearance. I want to translate alignment to center of Radius and grab radial points to define this new radius. So:
      I scroll to a logical place in program where the slot can be captured with minimal CMM Movement and I insert a recall statement to the current alignment and I enter a translation to the new alignment coordinates for the new Radius before the recall statement. PC DMIS asks me if I want to update program to new alignment.
      From Here I say NO. Presumably others would say YES.
      I capture the Radius and recall the Initial Alignment saying NO to every alignment update (if any). Works great.

      Now, If I had said YES then PC DMIS would change everything until the next RECALL Command. PC DMIS would continue doing this until I recalled the initial Alignment and would then ask me again. Presumabl;y I would say yes and then everything would be written cack to the program as it was before I did anything?

      That is where I take exception. If it was definitely correct before I did anything then I personally do not see the advantage of having PC DMIS calculate changes etc only to go back to where I was in the first place and then 'trust' that everything is exactly as it was. Basically, 'If it ain't broke then why fix it'? Besides, as much as we might argue the point, internal translations and rotations are not perfect and the end result is almost certainly guaranteed to be different from the initial starting point. BTW, for me the undo button has proven not to be a perfect undo.

      Now I can see if I make a mistake and forget to change alignment etc and want to translate afterward. Then I recall the Current Alignment, go back and change to desired alignment and press OK. PC DMIS updates until the Recall Command and I have fixed my error.

      Please, if there is an advantage to using this regularly I would like to understand it. Especially since it appears in the later versions of PC DMIS you can tell PC DMIS not to ask you this question anymore.

      Thanks in advance,
      Bill
      Before I would add the alignment to the center of the radius, I would put in an alignment recall statement for the current alignment. Then add your alignment before this recall statement. (See edit above.) Doing this, you will not have to answer yes, or no for that matter because nothing will happen either way.
      sigpic GDTPS - 0584

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      • #4
        Anytime I add or subtract an alignment & I NEVER WANT TO DO THIS........I answer no. The few times i've answered yes it has screwd my program up & on occasion when I've answered no it's screwd my program up. Messing with alignments is dangerous. As said many times before....Back-Up
        sigpic.....Its called golf because all the other 4 letter words were taken

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        • #5
          Normally I too would answer "no" to updating the alignment to the current alignment.

          The only time that I have found myself saying "yes" to update the alignment is when I have used aN incorrect datum and want to change everything to the new alignment.
          sigpic

          James Mannes

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          • #6
            I answer yes if the new alignment changes the coordinate system - so nominals are adjusted.
            I say no, if the alignment does not effect the coordinate system - though I should be able to say yes with no change to my nominals anyway.

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            • #7
              Wingman, I would always create a backup of the existing "good' or current program before doing anything related to an alignment "adjustment". I just don't trust it enough to make the proper adjustment througout the program. When I know that I'm going to use this option I always place a "STOPPER" alignment directly after the modified portion- pc dmis only updates to the next alignment (usually)
              Vegetables are what food eats

              Here be the cards I was dealt
              B&S Xcel
              PC-DMIS 2011 We are all just beta testers

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              • #8
                Thanks Everyone!!
                Bill Jarrells
                A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. - Mark Twain

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Wingman View Post
                  Part Program Revision: Radius Cutout added for clearance. I want to translate alignment to center of Radius and grab radial points to define this new radius. So:
                  I scroll to a logical place in program where the slot can be captured with minimal CMM Movement and I enter a translation to the new alignment coordinates for the new Radius. PC DMIS asks me if I want to update program to new alignment.
                  From Here I say NO. Presumably others would say YES.
                  I capture the Radius and recall the Initial Alignment saying NO to every alignment update (if any). Works great.

                  First, people have already said "backup" that is good advice. I like to do a save as and then save the program I am modifying as programname-mod-6-6-07 or some such.

                  Second, in the above quote that is a good reason to answer 'No'.

                  Originally posted by inspector212 View Post
                  Before I would add the alignment to the center of the radius, I would put in an alignment recall statement for the current alignment. Then add your alignment before this recall statement. (See edit above.) Doing this, you will not have to answer yes, or no for that matter because nothing will happen either way.
                  That is what I do. Insert the recall alignment command where I want the new stuff. Then before the recall alignment command I insert the new alignment. Then I answer no. Then I insert the features.

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                  • #10
                    Sounds like we are all using it the same. I must have misunderstood when I thought several people were saying yes 'all the time'.
                    The only time I say yes is when I 'forget' to change an alignemnt before I check a feature. Then I go back and do the alignment and say YES. Nice button to have if you make a mistake.

                    One thing though. I ran into trouble with Save As. The best I can recall it seemed as though when I did a Save As, PC DMIS maintained a link to both programs for some reason or in some way. Seems like it still maintained a link to the old program and did not do a clean break. I have since gotten into the habit of:
                    Save As
                    Close
                    Open Save As file
                    I don't remember the particulars of why I started doing this but there was a reason and this solved the problem and made the clean break. Anybody else notice some strange link to two programs when you do a Save As?
                    Bill Jarrells
                    A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. - Mark Twain

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                    • #11
                      If I am programming offline I will normally answer yes to the update alignment question depend on circumstance? When program has been run online I never answer yes to update question because report nominals always seem to get messed up.
                      B & S XCEL 7-10-7
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                      TP20 & TP2 Probes
                      Pcdmis CAD++ 3.7mr3, 4.3mr1, 2009mr1, 2010mr1
                      Datapage RT 3.33
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Wingman View Post
                        One thing though. I ran into trouble with Save As. The best I can recall it seemed as though when I did a Save As, PC DMIS maintained a link to both programs for some reason or in some way. Seems like it still maintained a link to the old program and did not do a clean break. I have since gotten into the habit of:
                        Save As
                        Close
                        Open Save As file
                        I don't remember the particulars of why I started doing this but there was a reason and this solved the problem and made the clean break. Anybody else notice some strange link to two programs when you do a Save As?
                        I have not experienced that but I'm going to guess it may be linked to the automatic backup, which I have turned off.

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                        • #13
                          That is it. It did have to do with that and I have that on. I really don't know why I have it on because I have backup copies of everything in a seperate backup directory.
                          Interesting.
                          Bill Jarrells
                          A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. - Mark Twain

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Wingman View Post
                            Sounds like we are all using it the same. I must have misunderstood when I thought several people were saying yes 'all the time'.
                            The only time I say yes is when I 'forget' to change an alignemnt before I check a feature. Then I go back and do the alignment and say YES. Nice button to have if you make a mistake.
                            When I said that, I guess I was talking about this circumstance.
                            sigpic GDTPS - 0584

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                            • #15
                              Hey 212, where are you from?
                              Bill Jarrells
                              A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. - Mark Twain

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