Total Runout

[John Kingston]

I have a part with /TR/.010/A/B/. -A- is the plane I am leveled to in Z and my Z origin. -B- is a diameter perp. to Z. -B- is also my X,Y origin. The feature the total runout is a concentric diameter to -B-. PC-DMIS does not have an option for Runout to 2 datums. Also, when I try to report runout to
-A-, I get a runout over .75 inches.

Am I looking at this the wrong way? Anyone know of a work around in V3.2063?

[kass_b]

Shouldn't it be perpendicular to a, runout to b, or could you use true position wich should tell the same.

[John Kingston]

I have no problem with the callout, it is perfectly legal. I don't understand the way PC-DMIS is reporting it.

[STEWY]

total runout.png I am having the same issue with legacy. It wont let me dimension total runout to 2 datums. Unless I'm missing something? When I dimension it to 1 datum it works fine. Would you just do what kass_b suggested?

[STEWY]

For the 100.5 total runout callout could you just dimension it to datum A and then do another dimension to datum b?

[Liambo734]

For the 100.5 total runout callout could you just dimension it to datum A and then do another dimension to datum b?

Can you have total runout of a plane to a plane? I think that's meant to be parallelism. Correct me if that's wrong.

The remaining callouts are okay. Are you using cylinders for your features?

[neil.challinor]

If it was just the plane - i.e the callout's only referenced datum A- then no, it would not be run-out, it would be parallelism as you say.
However, all of the callouts I can see either reference A as the primary and B as the secondary or B as the primary and A as the secondary. These should be handled as described in my comment Visitor Messages below. There are basically two datum reference frames, each with a slightly different interpretation. A|B uses the datum A plane to control orientation and translation along its axis and centres on the datum B cylinder to control translation about the axis. B|A uses the datum B cylinder to control orientation and translation about its axis and the datum A plane to control translation along the axis.

In essence, the difference is that A|B uses the plane to control orientation and B|A uses the cylinder. Both callouts are valid but will yield different results.

[Liambo734]

Thanks for that explanation! Yes, it makes sense as both A and B datums are present in each of the FCF.

[neil.challinor]

Legacy dimensioning is always based on the active alignment, so you need to create an alignment that represents the datum reference frame.

For the callouts that reference datum B as the primary and A as the secondary, you need to level and origin to the datum B cylinder (for example level Z, origin X & Y) and then origin the remaining axis (Z) on the datum A plane (a single plane measured across all 8 pads). You would then simply add two total run-out dimensions, each with a single input feature: One for the Ø329.8 and one for the Ø339.5.

For the callouts that reference datum A as the primary and B as the secondary, you need to level and origin to the datum A plane (for example level to Z and origin Z) and then origin the two remaining axes on the datum B cylinder (origin X & Y). Again, you would add three total run-out dimensions, each with a single input feature: One for the datum X plane, one for the 100.5 plane and one for the Ø328.5.

[STEWY]

I guess I am not understanding or visual seeing how you would dimension it to 2 datums. When I dimension the 100.5 plane I get weird numbers if I don't dimension it to a single datum. total runout 3.png

[UKCMM]

Either the origin is not correct or you are in the wrong workplane

[neil.challinor]

See my comment above. You should only select ONE feature in the run-out command which will use the active alignment as the "datums". When you select TWO features, it tries to build its own, internal alignment which uses the second feature as a datum, but this method will not accept multiple datums (as you have already found out).

[STEWY]

tr.png
Like this?

[UKCMM]

No you should only be reporting one result for PLN35, Create a new alignment as explained by Neil then just select PLN35 only this will give the result to the new Origin.

[neil.challinor]

PLN1       =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,NONE,LEAST_SQR
            THEO/<78.5,32.5,0>,<0,0,1>
            ACTL/<78.5,32.5,0>,<0,0,1>
            TARG/<78.5,32.5,0>,<0,0,1>
            ANGLE VEC=<1,0,0>,RADIAL
            SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
            SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
PLN2       =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,NONE,LEAST_SQR
            THEO/<32.527,78.489,0>,<0,0,1>
            ACTL/<32.527,78.489,0>,<0,0,1>
            TARG/<32.527,78.489,0>,<0,0,1>
            ANGLE VEC=<0.7071068,0.7071068,0>,RADIAL
            SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
            SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
PLN3       =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,NONE,LEAST_SQR
            THEO/<-32.5,78.5,0>,<0,0,1>
            ACTL/<-32.5,78.5,0>,<0,0,1>
            TARG/<-32.5,78.5,0>,<0,0,1>
            ANGLE VEC=<0,1,0>,RADIAL
            SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
            SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
PLN4       =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,NONE,LEAST_SQR
            THEO/<-78.489,32.527,0>,<0,0,1>
            ACTL/<-78.489,32.527,0>,<0,0,1>
            TARG/<-78.489,32.527,0>,<0,0,1>
            ANGLE VEC=<-0.7071068,0.7071068,0>,RADIAL
            SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
            SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
PLN5       =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,NONE,LEAST_SQR
            THEO/<-78.5,-32.5,0>,<0,0,1>
            ACTL/<-78.5,-32.5,0>,<0,0,1>
            TARG/<-78.5,-32.5,0>,<0,0,1>
            ANGLE VEC=<-1,0,0>,RADIAL
            SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
            SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
PLN6       =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,NONE,LEAST_SQR
            THEO/<-32.527,-78.489,0>,<0,0,1>
            ACTL/<-32.527,-78.489,0>,<0,0,1>
            TARG/<-32.527,-78.489,0>,<0,0,1>
            ANGLE VEC=<-0.7071068,-0.7071068,0>,RADIAL
            SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
            SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
PLN7       =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,NONE,LEAST_SQR
            THEO/<32.5,-78.5,0>,<0,0,1>
            ACTL/<32.5,-78.5,0>,<0,0,1>
            TARG/<32.5,-78.5,0>,<0,0,1>
            ANGLE VEC=<0,-1,0>,RADIAL
            SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
            SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
PLN8       =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,NONE,LEAST_SQR
            THEO/<78.489,-32.527,0>,<0,0,1>
            ACTL/<78.489,-32.527,0>,<0,0,1>
            TARG/<78.489,-32.527,0>,<0,0,1>
            ANGLE VEC=<0.7071068,-0.7071068,0>,RADIAL
            SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
            SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
COP1       =COP/DATA,TOTAL SIZE=32,REDUCED SIZE=32,
            REF=PLN1,PLN2,PLN3,PLN4,PLN5,PLN6,PLN7,PLN8,,
DAT_A_PLN  =FEAT/PLANE,CARTESIAN,TRIANGLE,NO,LEAST_SQR
            THEO/<0,0,0>,<0,0,1>
            ACTL/<0,0,0>,<0,0,1>
            CONSTR/PLANE,BFRE,COP1,,
            OUTLIER_REMOVAL/OFF,3
            FILTER/OFF,WAVELENGTH=0
DAT_B_CYL  =FEAT/CONTACT/CYLINDER/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR
            THEO/<0,0,0>,<0,0,1>,135,16.5
            ACTL/<0,0,0>,<0,0,1>,135,16.5
            TARG/<0,0,0>,<0,0,1>
            START ANG=0,END ANG=360
            ANGLE VEC=<1,0,0>
            DIRECTION=CCW
            SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
            SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
DAT_A_B_ALIGN=ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:STARTUP,LIST=YES
              ALIGNMENT/LEVEL,ZPLUS,DAT_A_PLN
              ALIGNMENT/TRANS,ZAXIS,DAT_A_PLN
              ALIGNMENT/TRANS,XAXIS,DAT_B_CYL
              ALIGNMENT/TRANS,YAXIS,DAT_B_CYL
            ALIGNMENT/END
PLN_100_5  =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,NONE,LEAST_SQR
            THEO/<0,0,100.5>,<0,0,1>
            ACTL/<0,0,100.5>,<0,0,1>
            TARG/<0,0,100.5>,<0,0,1>
            ANGLE VEC=<1,0,0>,RADIAL
            SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
            SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
            COMMENT/REPT,
            .
            . 0.5 total run-out of 100.5 face to datums A|B
            .
DIM RNOUT1= TOTAL RUNOUT OF PLANE PLN_100_5 TO  THE ORIGIN  UNITS=MM ,$
GRAPH=OFF  TEXT=OFF  MULT=10.00  ARROWDENSITY=100  OUTPUT=BOTH
AX    NOMINAL       +TOL       -TOL       MEAS        DEV     OUTTOL
M        0.000      0.500      0.000      0.000      0.000      0.000 #--------​