Total Runout

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  • Total Runout

    I have a part with /TR/.010/A/B/. -A- is the plane I am leveled to in Z and my Z origin. -B- is a diameter perp. to Z. -B- is also my X,Y origin. The feature the total runout is a concentric diameter to -B-. PC-DMIS does not have an option for Runout to 2 datums. Also, when I try to report runout to
    -A-, I get a runout over .75 inches.

    Am I looking at this the wrong way? Anyone know of a work around in V3.2063?
    When in doubt, post code. A second set of eyes might see something you missed.
    sigpic

  • #2
    Shouldn't it be perpendicular to a, runout to b, or could you use true position wich should tell the same.
    sigpic
    3.7 MR4

    Comment


    • #3
      I have no problem with the callout, it is perfectly legal. I don't understand the way PC-DMIS is reporting it.
      When in doubt, post code. A second set of eyes might see something you missed.
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #4
        total runout.png I am having the same issue with legacy. It wont let me dimension total runout to 2 datums. Unless I'm missing something? When I dimension it to 1 datum it works fine. Would you just do what kass_b suggested?

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        • #5
          For the 100.5 total runout callout could you just dimension it to datum A and then do another dimension to datum b?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by STEWY View Post
            For the 100.5 total runout callout could you just dimension it to datum A and then do another dimension to datum b?
            Can you have total runout of a plane to a plane? I think that's meant to be parallelism. Correct me if that's wrong.

            The remaining callouts are okay. Are you using cylinders for your features?
            3.7mr3CAD++ / 2011mr1CAD++/2012mr1CAD++/QUINDOS7

            Comment


            • neil.challinor
              neil.challinor commented
              Editing a comment
              If it was just the plane - i.e the callout's only referenced datum A- then no, it would not be run-out, it would be parallelism as you say.
              However, all of the callouts I can see either reference A as the primary and B as the secondary or B as the primary and A as the secondary. These should be handled as described in my comment Visitor Messages below. There are basically two datum reference frames, each with a slightly different interpretation. A|B uses the datum A plane to control orientation and translation along its axis and centres on the datum B cylinder to control translation about the axis. B|A uses the datum B cylinder to control orientation and translation about its axis and the datum A plane to control translation along the axis.

              In essence, the difference is that A|B uses the plane to control orientation and B|A uses the cylinder. Both callouts are valid but will yield different results.

            • Liambo734
              Liambo734 commented
              Editing a comment
              Thanks for that explanation! Yes, it makes sense as both A and B datums are present in each of the FCF.

          • #7
            Legacy dimensioning is always based on the active alignment, so you need to create an alignment that represents the datum reference frame.

            For the callouts that reference datum B as the primary and A as the secondary, you need to level and origin to the datum B cylinder (for example level Z, origin X & Y) and then origin the remaining axis (Z) on the datum A plane (a single plane measured across all 8 pads). You would then simply add two total run-out dimensions, each with a single input feature: One for the Ø329.8 and one for the Ø339.5.

            For the callouts that reference datum A as the primary and B as the secondary, you need to level and origin to the datum A plane (for example level to Z and origin Z) and then origin the two remaining axes on the datum B cylinder (origin X & Y). Again, you would add three total run-out dimensions, each with a single input feature: One for the datum X plane, one for the 100.5 plane and one for the Ø328.5.
            Neil Challinor
            PC-DMIS Product Owner

            T: +44 870 446 2667 (Hexagon UK office)
            E: [email protected]

            Comment


            • #8
              I guess I am not understanding or visual seeing how you would dimension it to 2 datums. When I dimension the 100.5 plane I get weird numbers if I don't dimension it to a single datum. total runout 3.png

              Comment


              • UKCMM
                UKCMM commented
                Editing a comment
                Either the origin is not correct or you are in the wrong workplane

              • neil.challinor
                neil.challinor commented
                Editing a comment
                See my comment above. You should only select ONE feature in the run-out command which will use the active alignment as the "datums". When you select TWO features, it tries to build its own, internal alignment which uses the second feature as a datum, but this method will not accept multiple datums (as you have already found out).

            • #9
              tr.png
              Like this?

              Comment


              • UKCMM
                UKCMM commented
                Editing a comment
                No you should only be reporting one result for PLN35, Create a new alignment as explained by Neil then just select PLN35 only this will give the result to the new Origin.

            • #10
              Code:
              PLN1       =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,NONE,LEAST_SQR
                          THEO/<78.5,32.5,0>,<0,0,1>
                          ACTL/<78.5,32.5,0>,<0,0,1>
                          TARG/<78.5,32.5,0>,<0,0,1>
                          ANGLE VEC=<1,0,0>,RADIAL
                          SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                          SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
              PLN2       =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,NONE,LEAST_SQR
                          THEO/<32.527,78.489,0>,<0,0,1>
                          ACTL/<32.527,78.489,0>,<0,0,1>
                          TARG/<32.527,78.489,0>,<0,0,1>
                          ANGLE VEC=<0.7071068,0.7071068,0>,RADIAL
                          SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                          SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
              PLN3       =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,NONE,LEAST_SQR
                          THEO/<-32.5,78.5,0>,<0,0,1>
                          ACTL/<-32.5,78.5,0>,<0,0,1>
                          TARG/<-32.5,78.5,0>,<0,0,1>
                          ANGLE VEC=<0,1,0>,RADIAL
                          SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                          SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
              PLN4       =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,NONE,LEAST_SQR
                          THEO/<-78.489,32.527,0>,<0,0,1>
                          ACTL/<-78.489,32.527,0>,<0,0,1>
                          TARG/<-78.489,32.527,0>,<0,0,1>
                          ANGLE VEC=<-0.7071068,0.7071068,0>,RADIAL
                          SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                          SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
              PLN5       =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,NONE,LEAST_SQR
                          THEO/<-78.5,-32.5,0>,<0,0,1>
                          ACTL/<-78.5,-32.5,0>,<0,0,1>
                          TARG/<-78.5,-32.5,0>,<0,0,1>
                          ANGLE VEC=<-1,0,0>,RADIAL
                          SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                          SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
              PLN6       =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,NONE,LEAST_SQR
                          THEO/<-32.527,-78.489,0>,<0,0,1>
                          ACTL/<-32.527,-78.489,0>,<0,0,1>
                          TARG/<-32.527,-78.489,0>,<0,0,1>
                          ANGLE VEC=<-0.7071068,-0.7071068,0>,RADIAL
                          SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                          SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
              PLN7       =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,NONE,LEAST_SQR
                          THEO/<32.5,-78.5,0>,<0,0,1>
                          ACTL/<32.5,-78.5,0>,<0,0,1>
                          TARG/<32.5,-78.5,0>,<0,0,1>
                          ANGLE VEC=<0,-1,0>,RADIAL
                          SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                          SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
              PLN8       =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,NONE,LEAST_SQR
                          THEO/<78.489,-32.527,0>,<0,0,1>
                          ACTL/<78.489,-32.527,0>,<0,0,1>
                          TARG/<78.489,-32.527,0>,<0,0,1>
                          ANGLE VEC=<0.7071068,-0.7071068,0>,RADIAL
                          SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                          SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
              COP1       =COP/DATA,TOTAL SIZE=32,REDUCED SIZE=32,
                          REF=PLN1,PLN2,PLN3,PLN4,PLN5,PLN6,PLN7,PLN8,,
              DAT_A_PLN  =FEAT/PLANE,CARTESIAN,TRIANGLE,NO,LEAST_SQR
                          THEO/<0,0,0>,<0,0,1>
                          ACTL/<0,0,0>,<0,0,1>
                          CONSTR/PLANE,BFRE,COP1,,
                          OUTLIER_REMOVAL/OFF,3
                          FILTER/OFF,WAVELENGTH=0
              DAT_B_CYL  =FEAT/CONTACT/CYLINDER/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR
                          THEO/<0,0,0>,<0,0,1>,135,16.5
                          ACTL/<0,0,0>,<0,0,1>,135,16.5
                          TARG/<0,0,0>,<0,0,1>
                          START ANG=0,END ANG=360
                          ANGLE VEC=<1,0,0>
                          DIRECTION=CCW
                          SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                          SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
              DAT_A_B_ALIGN=ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:STARTUP,LIST=YES
                            ALIGNMENT/LEVEL,ZPLUS,DAT_A_PLN
                            ALIGNMENT/TRANS,ZAXIS,DAT_A_PLN
                            ALIGNMENT/TRANS,XAXIS,DAT_B_CYL
                            ALIGNMENT/TRANS,YAXIS,DAT_B_CYL
                          ALIGNMENT/END
              PLN_100_5  =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,NONE,LEAST_SQR
                          THEO/<0,0,100.5>,<0,0,1>
                          ACTL/<0,0,100.5>,<0,0,1>
                          TARG/<0,0,100.5>,<0,0,1>
                          ANGLE VEC=<1,0,0>,RADIAL
                          SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                          SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
                          COMMENT/REPT,
                          .
                          . 0.5 total run-out of 100.5 face to datums A|B
                          .
              DIM RNOUT1= TOTAL RUNOUT OF PLANE PLN_100_5 TO  THE ORIGIN  UNITS=MM ,$
              GRAPH=OFF  TEXT=OFF  MULT=10.00  ARROWDENSITY=100  OUTPUT=BOTH
              AX    NOMINAL       +TOL       -TOL       MEAS        DEV     OUTTOL
              M        0.000      0.500      0.000      0.000      0.000      0.000 #--------​
              Neil Challinor
              PC-DMIS Product Owner

              T: +44 870 446 2667 (Hexagon UK office)
              E: [email protected]

              Comment

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