customer Concerns

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  • customer Concerns

    Running BROWN & SHARP WITH PC-DMIS 3.7 ,
    Our Customer complained that the part is too long ( 3 mm. long from Nominal ) in Z dicrtion.,( part is going over mating part).alignement was done while part on fixture with 3 tooling balls.
    I checked the part and was I.5 MM. short ( from nominal) .
    we both are confused, on where problem the is .
    in my reading for T value for length, I have the deviation in MINUS.
    PROBE USED TO CHECK THIS DIM. IS A90:B90, I VERIFIED THE CAL. WITH BOTH DCC & MANUAL, CALIBRATION and there was no much difference.

    Please, what could go wrong. in my check and what could go wrong in customer side.

    Waiting for your help.

    Thanks

  • #2
    Wow, where to begin. It could be several things. I know this probably doesn't help much but the two main things I would be concerned with is the tip calibration and your part alignment. I would recommend uploading the program for others to view if possible. Once we see the program we may be able to point out an error that is obvious to us right away that maybe you are just overlooking...
    sigpic
    Xcel 15-20-10 - PFXcel 7-6-5 - Merlin 11-11-7 - Romer Absolute 7525SI
    PCDMIS 2012
    Windows Office XP

    Comment


    • #3
      Well, my first approach would be to measure this using another method if possible. Then, hopefully, you will get an answer similar to one of your current two answers. Then you will know whether you are right or the customer is right. If you are right, the customer will have to figure out where they went wrong. If they are right, you will have to figure out where you went wrong - pray you are right.

      If your second method gives a completely different result from the other two, start banging your head on the nearest hard surface.

      Comment


      • #4
        1. Is the mating part right?
        2. Is the overlap area controlled by the same datums as the fixture?
        3. Are these parts' interaction controlled by a third part? (e.g. body panels fitting into a frame)

        Profile does not always give you the true picture of how parts fit together.
        sigpicYou're just jealous the voices talk to me.

        Comment


        • #5
          Darn it.. By the title of this thread I though it it would have been a comical rant I could read and laugh about. Sigh, instead its just another program with a measurement problem, story of my life... Sorry to hear your having problems though.. Good luck
          Mr. Comment
          SCIROCCO-NT 13-20-10
          B3C-LC Controller (Leitz Protocol), SP600M, TP200
          PCDMIS CAD++ v4.3 MR1(Build: 12/11/08)
          sigpic

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Goodluck View Post
            If your second method gives a completely different result from the other two, start banging your head on the nearest hard surface.
            This helps me more than anything else:
            http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/ISP/I...ispc026013.jpg
            sigpic
            Xcel 15-20-10 - PFXcel 7-6-5 - Merlin 11-11-7 - Romer Absolute 7525SI
            PCDMIS 2012
            Windows Office XP

            Comment


            • #7
              customer complaint

              Here is the programm.


              STARTUP =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:, LIST= YES
              ALIGNMENT/END
              MODE/MANUAL
              PREHIT/ 2
              RETRACT/ 2
              MOVESPEED/ 80
              LOADPROBE/PROBE-7
              TIP/T1A0B0, SHANKIJK=0, 0, 1, ANGLE=180
              FORMAT/TEXT,OPTIONS,ID,HEADINGS,SYMBOLS, ;NOM,TOL,MEAS,DEV,OUTTOL, ,
              SPH1 =AUTO/SPHERE,SHOWALLPARAMS = NO,SHOWHITS = YES
              THEO/3400.15,-875.22,1062.72,0,0,1,12.7
              ACTL/613.354,64.662,-912.943,0.0000633,0.0000394,1,13.473
              TARG/3400.15,-875.22,1062.72,0,0,1
              MEAS/SPHERE
              HIT/BASIC,3406.5,-875.22,1062.72,1,0,0,613.341,71.393,-911.834
              HIT/BASIC,3400.15,-868.87,1062.72,0,1,0,606.613,64.542,-911.833
              HIT/BASIC,3393.8,-875.22,1062.72,-1,0,0,613.403,57.931,-911.832
              HIT/BASIC,3400.15,-881.57,1062.72,0,-1,0,620.097,64.631,-911.833
              HIT/BASIC,3400.15,-875.22,1069.07,0,0,1,613.361,64.585,-905.107
              ENDMEAS/
              MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,3402.695,-902.674,1596.183
              MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,4745.213,-883.279,1596.165
              MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,4744.728,-865.839,1242.695
              SPH2 =AUTO/SPHERE,SHOWALLPARAMS = NO,SHOWHITS = YES
              THEO/4725.24,-874.95,1062.78,0,0,1,12.7
              ACTL/608.508,1389.839,-912.928,0.0000633,0.0000394,1,13.467
              TARG/4725.24,-874.95,1063.88,0,0,1
              MEAS/SPHERE
              HIT/BASIC,4731.59,-874.95,1063.88,1,0,0,608.497,1396.483,-910.722
              HIT/BASIC,4725.24,-868.6,1063.88,0,1,0,601.855,1389.617,-910.726
              HIT/BASIC,4718.89,-874.95,1063.88,-1,0,0,608.584,1383.197,-910.721
              HIT/BASIC,4725.24,-881.3,1063.88,0,-1,0,615.163,1389.696,-910.723
              HIT/BASIC,4725.24,-874.95,1070.23,0,0,1,608.514,1389.661,-905.096
              ENDMEAS/
              MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,4809.593,-872.905,1838.177
              MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,3416.119,-328.45,1838.238
              MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,3400.026,-308.674,1219.93
              SPH3 =AUTO/SPHERE,SHOWALLPARAMS = NO,SHOWHITS = YES
              THEO/3400.03,-308.03,1062.85,0,0,1,12.7
              ACTL/46.163,62.517,-912.765,0.0000633,0.0000394,1,13.437
              TARG/3400.03,-308.03,1062.85,0,0,1
              MEAS/SPHERE
              HIT/BASIC,3406.38,-308.03,1062.85,1,0,0,46.143,69.216,-911.664
              HIT/BASIC,3400.03,-301.68,1062.85,0,1,0,39.426,62.414,-911.666
              HIT/BASIC,3393.68,-308.03,1062.85,-1,0,0,46.243,55.818,-911.666
              HIT/BASIC,3400.03,-314.38,1062.85,0,-1,0,52.9,62.59,-911.666
              HIT/BASIC,3400.03,-308.03,1069.2,0,0,1,46.173,62.5,-904.947
              ENDMEAS/
              A0002 =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:STARTUP, LIST= YES
              ALIGNMENT/ITERATE
              PNT TARGET RAD = 5, START LABEL = , FIXTURE TOL = 0.05, ERROR LABEL =
              MEAS ALL FEAT = ALWAYS ,MAX ITERATIONS = 99 ,LEVEL AXIS=ZAXIS ,ROTATE AXIS=YAXIS ,ORIGIN AXIS=XAXIS
              LEVEL = SPH1,SPH2,SPH3,,
              ROTATE = SPH1,SPH2,,
              ORIGIN = SPH3,,
              ALIGNMENT/END
              MODE/DCC
              MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,3435.372,-309.162,1855.923
              MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,4342.925,-980.505,1855.844
              TIP/T1A90B-90, SHANKIJK=0.015, 1, 0, ANGLE=-180
              MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,4328.014,-833.047,1210.538
              MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,4319.21,-742.674,1223.791
              PNT -1 =AUTO/VECTOR POINT,SHOWALLPARAMS = NO
              THEO/4309.393,-739.202,1231.366,0.0259912,0,-0.9996622
              ACTL/4309.34,-739.189,1233.169,0.0259912,0,-0.9996622
              TARG/4309.422,-739.202,1230.266,0.0259912,0,-0.9996622
              DIM LOC1= LOCATION OF POINT PNT -1 UNITS=MM ,$
              GRAPH=OFF TEXT=OFF MULT=10.00 OUTPUT=BOTH
              AX NOMINAL +TOL -TOL MEAS DEV OUTTOL
              X 4309.393 0.500 0.500 4309.340 -0.053 0.000 ----#----
              Y -739.202 0.500 0.500 -739.189 0.013 0.000 ----#----
              Z 1231.366 0.500 0.500 1233.169 1.803 1.303 -------->
              T 0.000 0.500 0.500 -1.804 -1.804 1.304 <--------
              END OF DIMENSION LOC1

              Comment


              • #8
                LOADPROBE/PROBE-7

                Is that a -7? That is a no-no in PC-DMIS. I'm not certain that this is the problem, but it could be subtracting 7 from the diameter of the tip... I'll look further into the program since maybe I'm jumping to conclusions...
                sigpic
                Xcel 15-20-10 - PFXcel 7-6-5 - Merlin 11-11-7 - Romer Absolute 7525SI
                PCDMIS 2012
                Windows Office XP

                Comment


                • #9
                  PNT -1 =AUTO/VECTOR POINT,SHOWALLPARAMS = NO

                  This is a no-no also. I'd recommend taking these minus signs out of the program and re-running it to see if this helps alleviate some of your problems. I may be way off base but this has caused me several headaches in the past...
                  sigpic
                  Xcel 15-20-10 - PFXcel 7-6-5 - Merlin 11-11-7 - Romer Absolute 7525SI
                  PCDMIS 2012
                  Windows Office XP

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by A Disho View Post
                    SPH1 =AUTO/SPHERE,SHOWALLPARAMS = NO,SHOWHITS = YES
                    THEO/3400.15,-875.22,1062.72,0,0,1,12.7
                    ACTL/613.354,64.662,-912.943,0.0000633,0.0000394,1,13.473
                    TARG/3400.15,-875.22,1062.72,0,0,1
                    MEAS/SPHERE
                    HIT/BASIC,3406.5,-875.22,1062.72,1,0,0,613.341,71.393,-911.834
                    HIT/BASIC,3400.15,-868.87,1062.72,0,1,0,606.613,64.542,-911.833
                    HIT/BASIC,3393.8,-875.22,1062.72,-1,0,0,613.403,57.931,-911.832
                    HIT/BASIC,3400.15,-881.57,1062.72,0,-1,0,620.097,64.631,-911.833
                    HIT/BASIC,3400.15,-875.22,1069.07,0,0,1,613.361,64.585,-905.107
                    ENDMEAS/
                    SPH2 =AUTO/SPHERE,SHOWALLPARAMS = NO,SHOWHITS = YES
                    THEO/4725.24,-874.95,1062.78,0,0,1,12.7
                    ACTL/608.508,1389.839,-912.928,0.0000633,0.0000394,1,13.467
                    TARG/4725.24,-874.95,1063.88,0,0,1
                    MEAS/SPHERE
                    HIT/BASIC,4731.59,-874.95,1063.88,1,0,0,608.497,1396.483,-910.722
                    HIT/BASIC,4725.24,-868.6,1063.88,0,1,0,601.855,1389.617,-910.726
                    HIT/BASIC,4718.89,-874.95,1063.88,-1,0,0,608.584,1383.197,-910.721
                    HIT/BASIC,4725.24,-881.3,1063.88,0,-1,0,615.163,1389.696,-910.723
                    HIT/BASIC,4725.24,-874.95,1070.23,0,0,1,608.514,1389.661,-905.096
                    ENDMEAS/
                    SPH3 =AUTO/SPHERE,SHOWALLPARAMS = NO,SHOWHITS = YES
                    THEO/3400.03,-308.03,1062.85,0,0,1,12.7
                    ACTL/46.163,62.517,-912.765,0.0000633,0.0000394,1,13.437
                    TARG/3400.03,-308.03,1062.85,0,0,1
                    MEAS/SPHERE
                    HIT/BASIC,3406.38,-308.03,1062.85,1,0,0,46.143,69.216,-911.664
                    HIT/BASIC,3400.03,-301.68,1062.85,0,1,0,39.426,62.414,-911.666
                    HIT/BASIC,3393.68,-308.03,1062.85,-1,0,0,46.243,55.818,-911.666
                    HIT/BASIC,3400.03,-314.38,1062.85,0,-1,0,52.9,62.59,-911.666
                    HIT/BASIC,3400.03,-308.03,1069.2,0,0,1,46.173,62.5,-904.947
                    ENDMEAS/


                    PNT -1 =AUTO/VECTOR POINT,SHOWALLPARAMS = NO
                    THEO/4309.393,-739.202,1231.366,0.0259912,0,-0.9996622
                    ACTL/4309.34,-739.189,1233.169,0.0259912,0,-0.9996622
                    TARG/4309.422,-739.202,1230.266,0.0259912,0,-0.9996622
                    DIM LOC1= LOCATION OF POINT PNT -1 UNITS=MM ,$
                    GRAPH=OFF TEXT=OFF MULT=10.00 OUTPUT=BOTH
                    AX NOMINAL +TOL -TOL MEAS DEV OUTTOL
                    X 4309.393 0.500 0.500 4309.340 -0.053 0.000 ----#----
                    Y -739.202 0.500 0.500 -739.189 0.013 0.000 ----#----
                    Z 1231.366 0.500 0.500 1233.169 1.803 1.303 -------->
                    T 0.000 0.500 0.500 -1.804 -1.804 1.304 <--------
                    END OF DIMENSION LOC1
                    It would be very rare for a 1/2" tooling ball to measure 13.4mm so I'm thinking some of your error is in your tip calibration. The vector of PNT -1 is also showing that this surface is on approximately a 2 degree angle. Is that correct? I'm thinking your vector here should be 0,0,-1.
                    sigpic
                    Xcel 15-20-10 - PFXcel 7-6-5 - Merlin 11-11-7 - Romer Absolute 7525SI
                    PCDMIS 2012
                    Windows Office XP

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Problem

                      I have had this problem in the past. Is the part being set up to in inbody position & is it Drawn this way / Dimensioned this way. mine is. In this case
                      the only way to get the measurement the print called out was to measure inbody rotation there was no easy way to get it in the correct rotation to measure
                      with calipers or mics just becuase of the way it was drawn

                      Check your model what does the nominal come up with from the points you take in striaght line then in rotation? then verify that to the print to see which match

                      I may be barking up the wrong tree but just what I have ran into.
                      Last edited by why me; 05-15-2007, 03:25 PM.
                      sigpicTHE TASK AHEAD OF YOU, IS NEVER AS GREAT AS THE POWER BEHIND YOU. I Fight for Freedom and Pray For Peace..

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                      • #12
                        I dont know if this will help? In the past I have corrected issues such as your problem, by rebuilding the probe. It may be a corrupted probe file.
                        sigpic

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                        • #13
                          I notice that the theo and target values don't match on the vector point. Are you using a thickness value?? (Actual thickness??)

                          Scott

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                          • #14
                            4.5mm difference?? You got a tape measure to see who is close?
                            Links to my utilities for PCDMIS

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by cmmguy View Post
                              4.5mm difference?? You got a tape measure to see who is close?
                              No kidding...
                              sigpic
                              Xcel 15-20-10 - PFXcel 7-6-5 - Merlin 11-11-7 - Romer Absolute 7525SI
                              PCDMIS 2012
                              Windows Office XP

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