customer Concerns

[A Disho]

Running BROWN & SHARP WITH PC-DMIS 3.7 ,
Our Customer complained that the part is too long ( 3 mm. long from Nominal ) in Z dicrtion.,( part is going over mating part).alignement was done while part on fixture with 3 tooling balls.
I checked the part and was I.5 MM. short ( from nominal) .
we both are confused, on where problem the is .
in my reading for T value for length, I have the deviation in MINUS.
PROBE USED TO CHECK THIS DIM. IS A90:B90, I VERIFIED THE CAL. WITH BOTH DCC & MANUAL, CALIBRATION and there was no much difference.

Please, what could go wrong. in my check and what could go wrong in customer side.

Waiting for your help.

Thanks

[rangerboat72]

Wow, where to begin. It could be several things. I know this probably doesn't help much but the two main things I would be concerned with is the tip calibration and your part alignment. I would recommend uploading the program for others to view if possible. Once we see the program we may be able to point out an error that is obvious to us right away that maybe you are just overlooking...

[#2#]

Well, my first approach would be to measure this using another method if possible. Then, hopefully, you will get an answer similar to one of your current two answers. Then you will know whether you are right or the customer is right. If you are right, the customer will have to figure out where they went wrong. If they are right, you will have to figure out where you went wrong - pray you are right.

If your second method gives a completely different result from the other two, start banging your head on the nearest hard surface.

[DaddyBluto]

1. Is the mating part right?
2. Is the overlap area controlled by the same datums as the fixture?
3. Are these parts' interaction controlled by a third part? (e.g. body panels fitting into a frame)

Profile does not always give you the true picture of how parts fit together.

[MrComment]

Darn it.. By the title of this thread I though it it would have been a comical rant I could read and laugh about. Sigh, instead its just another program with a measurement problem, story of my life... Sorry to hear your having problems though.. Good luck

[rangerboat72]

If your second method gives a completely different result from the other two, start banging your head on the nearest hard surface.

This helps me more than anything else:
http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/ISP/I...ispc026013.jpg

[A Disho]

customer complaint

Here is the programm.


STARTUP =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:, LIST= YES
ALIGNMENT/END
MODE/MANUAL
PREHIT/ 2
RETRACT/ 2
MOVESPEED/ 80
LOADPROBE/PROBE-7
TIP/T1A0B0, SHANKIJK=0, 0, 1, ANGLE=180
FORMAT/TEXT,OPTIONS,ID,HEADINGS,SYMBOLS, ;NOM,TOL,MEAS,DEV,OUTTOL, ,
SPH1 =AUTO/SPHERE,SHOWALLPARAMS = NO,SHOWHITS = YES
THEO/3400.15,-875.22,1062.72,0,0,1,12.7
ACTL/613.354,64.662,-912.943,0.0000633,0.0000394,1,13.473
TARG/3400.15,-875.22,1062.72,0,0,1
MEAS/SPHERE
HIT/BASIC,3406.5,-875.22,1062.72,1,0,0,613.341,71.393,-911.834
HIT/BASIC,3400.15,-868.87,1062.72,0,1,0,606.613,64.542,-911.833
HIT/BASIC,3393.8,-875.22,1062.72,-1,0,0,613.403,57.931,-911.832
HIT/BASIC,3400.15,-881.57,1062.72,0,-1,0,620.097,64.631,-911.833
HIT/BASIC,3400.15,-875.22,1069.07,0,0,1,613.361,64.585,-905.107
ENDMEAS/
MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,3402.695,-902.674,1596.183
MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,4745.213,-883.279,1596.165
MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,4744.728,-865.839,1242.695
SPH2 =AUTO/SPHERE,SHOWALLPARAMS = NO,SHOWHITS = YES
THEO/4725.24,-874.95,1062.78,0,0,1,12.7
ACTL/608.508,1389.839,-912.928,0.0000633,0.0000394,1,13.467
TARG/4725.24,-874.95,1063.88,0,0,1
MEAS/SPHERE
HIT/BASIC,4731.59,-874.95,1063.88,1,0,0,608.497,1396.483,-910.722
HIT/BASIC,4725.24,-868.6,1063.88,0,1,0,601.855,1389.617,-910.726
HIT/BASIC,4718.89,-874.95,1063.88,-1,0,0,608.584,1383.197,-910.721
HIT/BASIC,4725.24,-881.3,1063.88,0,-1,0,615.163,1389.696,-910.723
HIT/BASIC,4725.24,-874.95,1070.23,0,0,1,608.514,1389.661,-905.096
ENDMEAS/
MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,4809.593,-872.905,1838.177
MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,3416.119,-328.45,1838.238
MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,3400.026,-308.674,1219.93
SPH3 =AUTO/SPHERE,SHOWALLPARAMS = NO,SHOWHITS = YES
THEO/3400.03,-308.03,1062.85,0,0,1,12.7
ACTL/46.163,62.517,-912.765,0.0000633,0.0000394,1,13.437
TARG/3400.03,-308.03,1062.85,0,0,1
MEAS/SPHERE
HIT/BASIC,3406.38,-308.03,1062.85,1,0,0,46.143,69.216,-911.664
HIT/BASIC,3400.03,-301.68,1062.85,0,1,0,39.426,62.414,-911.666
HIT/BASIC,3393.68,-308.03,1062.85,-1,0,0,46.243,55.818,-911.666
HIT/BASIC,3400.03,-314.38,1062.85,0,-1,0,52.9,62.59,-911.666
HIT/BASIC,3400.03,-308.03,1069.2,0,0,1,46.173,62.5,-904.947
ENDMEAS/
A0002 =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:STARTUP, LIST= YES
ALIGNMENT/ITERATE
PNT TARGET RAD = 5, START LABEL = , FIXTURE TOL = 0.05, ERROR LABEL =
MEAS ALL FEAT = ALWAYS ,MAX ITERATIONS = 99 ,LEVEL AXIS=ZAXIS ,ROTATE AXIS=YAXIS ,ORIGIN AXIS=XAXIS
LEVEL = SPH1,SPH2,SPH3,,
ROTATE = SPH1,SPH2,,
ORIGIN = SPH3,,
ALIGNMENT/END
MODE/DCC
MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,3435.372,-309.162,1855.923
MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,4342.925,-980.505,1855.844
TIP/T1A90B-90, SHANKIJK=0.015, 1, 0, ANGLE=-180
MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,4328.014,-833.047,1210.538
MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,4319.21,-742.674,1223.791
PNT -1 =AUTO/VECTOR POINT,SHOWALLPARAMS = NO
THEO/4309.393,-739.202,1231.366,0.0259912,0,-0.9996622
ACTL/4309.34,-739.189,1233.169,0.0259912,0,-0.9996622
TARG/4309.422,-739.202,1230.266,0.0259912,0,-0.9996622
DIM LOC1= LOCATION OF POINT PNT -1 UNITS=MM ,$
GRAPH=OFF TEXT=OFF MULT=10.00 OUTPUT=BOTH
AX NOMINAL +TOL -TOL MEAS DEV OUTTOL
X 4309.393 0.500 0.500 4309.340 -0.053 0.000 ----#----
Y -739.202 0.500 0.500 -739.189 0.013 0.000 ----#----
Z 1231.366 0.500 0.500 1233.169 1.803 1.303 -------->
T 0.000 0.500 0.500 -1.804 -1.804 1.304 <--------
END OF DIMENSION LOC1

[rangerboat72]

LOADPROBE/PROBE-7

Is that a -7? That is a no-no in PC-DMIS. I'm not certain that this is the problem, but it could be subtracting 7 from the diameter of the tip... I'll look further into the program since maybe I'm jumping to conclusions...

[rangerboat72]

PNT -1 =AUTO/VECTOR POINT,SHOWALLPARAMS = NO

This is a no-no also. I'd recommend taking these minus signs out of the program and re-running it to see if this helps alleviate some of your problems. I may be way off base but this has caused me several headaches in the past...

[rangerboat72]

SPH1 =AUTO/SPHERE,SHOWALLPARAMS = NO,SHOWHITS = YES
THEO/3400.15,-875.22,1062.72,0,0,1,12.7
ACTL/613.354,64.662,-912.943,0.0000633,0.0000394,1,13.473
TARG/3400.15,-875.22,1062.72,0,0,1
MEAS/SPHERE
HIT/BASIC,3406.5,-875.22,1062.72,1,0,0,613.341,71.393,-911.834
HIT/BASIC,3400.15,-868.87,1062.72,0,1,0,606.613,64.542,-911.833
HIT/BASIC,3393.8,-875.22,1062.72,-1,0,0,613.403,57.931,-911.832
HIT/BASIC,3400.15,-881.57,1062.72,0,-1,0,620.097,64.631,-911.833
HIT/BASIC,3400.15,-875.22,1069.07,0,0,1,613.361,64.585,-905.107
ENDMEAS/
SPH2 =AUTO/SPHERE,SHOWALLPARAMS = NO,SHOWHITS = YES
THEO/4725.24,-874.95,1062.78,0,0,1,12.7
ACTL/608.508,1389.839,-912.928,0.0000633,0.0000394,1,13.467
TARG/4725.24,-874.95,1063.88,0,0,1
MEAS/SPHERE
HIT/BASIC,4731.59,-874.95,1063.88,1,0,0,608.497,1396.483,-910.722
HIT/BASIC,4725.24,-868.6,1063.88,0,1,0,601.855,1389.617,-910.726
HIT/BASIC,4718.89,-874.95,1063.88,-1,0,0,608.584,1383.197,-910.721
HIT/BASIC,4725.24,-881.3,1063.88,0,-1,0,615.163,1389.696,-910.723
HIT/BASIC,4725.24,-874.95,1070.23,0,0,1,608.514,1389.661,-905.096
ENDMEAS/
SPH3 =AUTO/SPHERE,SHOWALLPARAMS = NO,SHOWHITS = YES
THEO/3400.03,-308.03,1062.85,0,0,1,12.7
ACTL/46.163,62.517,-912.765,0.0000633,0.0000394,1,13.437
TARG/3400.03,-308.03,1062.85,0,0,1
MEAS/SPHERE
HIT/BASIC,3406.38,-308.03,1062.85,1,0,0,46.143,69.216,-911.664
HIT/BASIC,3400.03,-301.68,1062.85,0,1,0,39.426,62.414,-911.666
HIT/BASIC,3393.68,-308.03,1062.85,-1,0,0,46.243,55.818,-911.666
HIT/BASIC,3400.03,-314.38,1062.85,0,-1,0,52.9,62.59,-911.666
HIT/BASIC,3400.03,-308.03,1069.2,0,0,1,46.173,62.5,-904.947
ENDMEAS/


PNT -1 =AUTO/VECTOR POINT,SHOWALLPARAMS = NO
THEO/4309.393,-739.202,1231.366,0.0259912,0,-0.9996622
ACTL/4309.34,-739.189,1233.169,0.0259912,0,-0.9996622
TARG/4309.422,-739.202,1230.266,0.0259912,0,-0.9996622
DIM LOC1= LOCATION OF POINT PNT -1 UNITS=MM ,$
GRAPH=OFF TEXT=OFF MULT=10.00 OUTPUT=BOTH
AX NOMINAL +TOL -TOL MEAS DEV OUTTOL
X 4309.393 0.500 0.500 4309.340 -0.053 0.000 ----#----
Y -739.202 0.500 0.500 -739.189 0.013 0.000 ----#----
Z 1231.366 0.500 0.500 1233.169 1.803 1.303 -------->
T 0.000 0.500 0.500 -1.804 -1.804 1.304 <--------
END OF DIMENSION LOC1

It would be very rare for a 1/2" tooling ball to measure 13.4mm so I'm thinking some of your error is in your tip calibration. The vector of PNT -1 is also showing that this surface is on approximately a 2 degree angle. Is that correct? I'm thinking your vector here should be 0,0,-1.

[why me]

Problem

I have had this problem in the past. Is the part being set up to in inbody position & is it Drawn this way / Dimensioned this way. mine is. In this case
the only way to get the measurement the print called out was to measure inbody rotation there was no easy way to get it in the correct rotation to measure
with calipers or mics just becuase of the way it was drawn

Check your model what does the nominal come up with from the points you take in striaght line then in rotation? then verify that to the print to see which match

I may be barking up the wrong tree but just what I have ran into.

[AJHVW93]

I dont know if this will help? In the past I have corrected issues such as your problem, by rebuilding the probe. It may be a corrupted probe file.

[Scott Brown]

I notice that the theo and target values don't match on the vector point. Are you using a thickness value?? (Actual thickness??)

Scott

[cmmguy]

4.5mm difference?? You got a tape measure to see who is close?

[rangerboat72]

4.5mm difference?? You got a tape measure to see who is close?

No kidding...