New CMM Questions not answered by salesman

[Zero_micron_filter]

Sometimes getting answers from these salesmen is like pulling teeth.
I am having a new Hexagon CMM quoted, particularly a GLOBAL S Green 12.22.10, and it was 1st quoted with PC-DMIS CAD, AUTOPATH, and FLY2 MODE.
I haven't used either FLY mode, or AUTOPATH. Otherwise, for the parts this CMM is to be used for CAD isn't justified as we will basically be verifying certain dims. fall within repair limits as opposed to checking all features meet print (significantly tighter tolerances). I don't believe we would see a benefit on this machine from either 1) AUTOPATH (programming is only rarely done on the machine), 2) The programs are short for these repair parts and there just isn't much time to cut using FLY mode. Anyway, I asked that the quote be revised down to PC-DMIS PRO, and asked if the CAD level was required for AUTOPATH, and FLY2 MODE - Because I specifically asked for PC-DMIS PRO in the first place. Well, I got the revised quote, and it is still quoted at CAD level and no answers to my questions.

So, I'm hoping you guys could help me out here.
I have two questions :
1) AUTOPATH (if used) is only required on the seat on which the programming is done, correct...so I have it on my offline seat it isn't needed on the seat for the CMM correct?
2) Is CAD LEVEL of PC-DMIS required for FLY2 MODE for programming and to run?

Thanks in advance for your help, zero

[Cumofo]

FLY MODE doesn't just "Speed Up" the programming routines, as with most of us that is inconsequential. But it does reduce machine noise, vibration, and sometimes false triggers too. Auto path is like red-white-and blue tassles on a big-wheel except for sheet metal punched parts with gazillions of holes.
Get a Zeiss qoute and a verisurf qoute and shove it under the salesman's nose and watch him jump out of his skin.
In negotiation you have to assess the other parties value system, and then proceed from there. Using the two other quotes, (which are meaningless to you) allows you to use the "Straw Man" negotiation strategy. Very effective.

[JEFMAN]

Not sure of it, but I would say you can't scan with PC-DMIS PRO...

[Rondog]

The FLY2 MODE is something that that must be licensed on the controller from what I have heard (along with ECO+ MODE). If you don't license this feature on the controller you can't use it. It is probably the same (or very similar) to the current FLY option available on Hexagon controllers. Licensing features on the controller is something new for Hexagon (and a bit silly in my opinion). If it was me, and there was a price attached to it, I would tell them to keep it. I assume the original FLY option still works. It would be interesting to know the difference between the two (FLY vs FLY2).

The AUTOPATH option would require a cad model. PC-DMIS PRO doesn't allow you to import a cad model so the AUTOPATH option wouldn't work (or likely even be offered) for the base level of PC-DMIS which is why your second quote was for PC-DMIS CAD with AUTOPATH. I could see this as an advantage in some situations but it is unlikely to be useful (usable?) in general. I don't know anyone who uses this feature but maybe someone else can chime in about it with good and/or bad comments. I personally would lean toward 'Not Needed' unless the price is reasonable.

[Douglas]

don't ask questions for which the answers reduce his commission and this will stop happening

[Cumofo]

I used to remember when a sales visit meant free lunch and baseball tickets. WE let this happen. WE condone this behavior when WE vote with our dollars.

[RandomJerk]

*WE* don't vote with our dollars, management does. And management is willing to believe any BS the salesman throws their way. Not only that, the salesman tells management that with all the extra money they spent, programming time will be 1/10 of what it used to be, and the machine will come home on the weekends with them and mow their lawns. And they believe every word of it, even over objections, and *WE* get hassled for not doing all of the things the salesman lied about.

And lunches started dying out in the early aughts, no one had time it seemed.

[ctw00]

RandomJerk, it sounds like you have a terrible company and/or manager. What manager or company doesn't want to know when a ROI will be achieved for their capital expense?

[DeWain Hodge]

If you program offline with a CAD model then open the program in PRO you don't get the CAD. With aircraft parts trouble shooting the part can sometimes be an issue without the model.

[Wes Cisco]

I used to remember when a sales visit meant free lunch and baseball tickets. WE let this happen. WE condone this behavior when WE vote with our dollars.

Why did you stop remembering this?

If the Hexagon "Sales Engineer" is unwilling to tailor the quote to your liking, ask for their supervisor's email address.

[ctw00]

FLY MODE doesn't just "Speed Up" the programming routines, as with most of us that is inconsequential. But it does reduce machine noise, vibration, and sometimes false triggers too. Auto path is like red-white-and blue tassles on a big-wheel except for sheet metal punched parts with gazillions of holes.
Get a Zeiss qoute and a verisurf qoute and shove it under the salesman's nose and watch him jump out of his skin.
In negotiation you have to assess the other parties value system, and then proceed from there. Using the two other quotes, (which are meaningless to you) allows you to use the "Straw Man" negotiation strategy. Very effective.

Fly Mode used to have an issue with small holes, do you know if this is an issue anymore?

[Zero_micron_filter]

Thanks for chiming in everyone.

I have never used the (original) FLY mode, I understand it to be coordinated moves (moving x,y,z and head A and B simultaneously)...is that a correct understanding?

Now, from the responses here I think FLY2 mode is something totally different...having to do with scanning. Is that correct?

Scanning is not needed on this machine for the parts it will run. Right JEFMAN, no scanning with PRO.

Otherwise, AUTOPATH is only a programming tool...nothing is inserted in the program code that will not run on a seat that DOES NOT HAVE AUTOPATH....is that a correct statement?

Happy Friday!, zero

[JEFMAN]

Hi Zero !
About "Flymode", it's a function that allows to change of direction with a circular move, instead of stop along X and go along Z for example. (no coupling ? not sure of the translation !)
What you describe is "MOVEALL", which has to be used with a lot of precautions !!!

[Cumofo]

I vote "Random Jerk" for President.