Total Runout

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  • Total Runout

    Good morning all. I do not use TOTAL RUNOUT hardly at all. I refreshed myself up a little. Just to make sure I'm doing this right. I have a 4.0x4.0x1.0 thick part with a .500" thru hole and then a 3/4" counter bore .500" deep. I measured a circle 7 points on each end of the thru hole and counter bore and created 2 cylinders out of each set. Then a done a TOTAL RUNOUT from cylinder to cylinder. Is that legit? The alignment is not in the equation or does it need to be.
    sigpic

  • #2
    Well, what are the drawing requirements? I don't quantify anything that isn't absolutely necessary for product acceptance. Does your print have total runout (two arrows connected at bottom)?
    What is the defined datum in the FCF (as total runout obligates a datum reference)?
    What is the stated tolerance?
    Do you feel 2x 7-point circle cuts is enough of a representation of the feature to determine pass/fail?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by louisd View Post
      Well, what are the drawing requirements? I don't quantify anything that isn't absolutely necessary for product acceptance. Does your print have total runout (two arrows connected at bottom)?
      What is the defined datum in the FCF (as total runout obligates a datum reference)?
      What is the stated tolerance?
      Do you feel 2x 7-point circle cuts is enough of a representation of the feature to determine pass/fail?
      It total runout 2 lines are connected at the bottom. The tolerance is .0005 and the thru hole is datum A. I changed all diameters to 11 points.
      sigpic

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      • louisd
        louisd commented
        Editing a comment
        I would do at least 3 cuts on each hole, that way you capture any barreling or hourglassing of the bores.

    • #4
      I did 3 row of 11 points on each diameter which one is DATUM A and the other is runout to A. I created 2 cylinders and then ask for total runout between the 2.
      sigpic

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      • #5
        if the length of your constructed cylinder is the length between your two circles... not the full length of the cylinder, that will affect the result if that is the case. Total runout would need to consider the entire length of the feature

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        • #6
          Originally posted by Douglas View Post
          if the length of your constructed cylinder is the length between your two circles... not the full length of the cylinder, that will affect the result if that is the case. Total runout would need to consider the entire length of the feature
          So is it better to use a cylinder constructed out of 4 circles or a 3D line constructed out of the same 4 circles and the same for the actual callout. Datum the 3D line to a cylinder?
          sigpic

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          • #7
            A 3d Line constructed from the centroids would be only evaluating for concentricity (excludes surface variation).
            You absolutely must include surface variation when evaluating runout.

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            • #8
              You should be able to construct a cylinder from the HITS of the four circles though.
              PC-DMIS CAD++ 2o22.1 SP2

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              • #9
                Originally posted by vpt.se View Post
                You should be able to construct a cylinder from the HITS of the four circles though.
                So is it more accurate to construct a cylinder just by using the 4 circles or to construct a cylinder by using the .NUMHITS option. I know this seems to be a beginner question but like I mentioned in the first comment I do not use RUNOUT much. So I asking these questions. So far all the comments has been helpful, so thank you all.
                sigpic

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                • #10
                  $$ NO,
                  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  The center 1.0642 counter borehole
                  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  CIR1 =FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR
                  THEO/<0,0,0>,<1,0,0>,1.0642
                  ACTL/<0,0,0>,<1,0,0>,1.0642
                  TARG/<0,0,0>,<1,0,0>
                  START ANG=15,END ANG=165
                  ANGLE VEC=<0,1,0>
                  DIRECTION=CW
                  SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                  SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
                  CIR2 =FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR
                  THEO/<-0.2517,0,0>,<1,0,0>,1.0642
                  ACTL/<-0.2517,0,0>,<1,0,0>,1
                  TARG/<-0.2517,0,0>,<1,0,0>
                  START ANG=165,END ANG=15
                  ANGLE VEC=<0,1,0>
                  DIRECTION=CCW
                  SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                  SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
                  CIR3 =FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR
                  THEO/<-0.5034,0,0>,<1,0,0>,1.0642
                  ACTL/<-0.5034,0,0>,<1,0,0>,1
                  TARG/<-0.5034,0,0>,<1,0,0>
                  START ANG=15,END ANG=165
                  ANGLE VEC=<0,1,0>
                  DIRECTION=CW
                  SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                  SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
                  CYL1 =FEAT/CYLINDER,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR,NO
                  THEO/<-0.2892,0,0>,<-1,0,0>,1.0642,0.4284
                  ACTL/<-0.2892,0,0>,<-1,0,0>,1.0642,0.4284
                  CONSTR/CYLINDER,BF,CIR1,CIR2,CIR3
                  ,,
                  CYL1A =FEAT/CYLINDER,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR,NO
                  THEO/<-0.2892,0,0>,<-1,0,0>,1.0642,0.4284
                  ACTL/<-0.2892,0,0>,<-1,0,0>,1.0642,0.4284
                  CONSTR/CYLINDER,BF,CIR1.HIT[1..CIR1.NUMHITS],CIR2.HIT[1..CIR2.NUMHITS],CIR3.HIT[1..CIR3.NUMHITS],,




                  I constructed the cylinder 2 ways and going to see the results when I run this
                  sigpic

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