The Future of PC-DMIS BUGS

[Jambo The Rambo]

Hexagon reps in here? If so, can I ask why I am told to submit tickets or report bugs to help fix your software so frequently? Do you compensate my companies annual licensing fee for me talking the time to report a bug to improve YOUR software? Do I get a Hexagon coffee mug sent and an apology for hindering my job from which I make a living from? What about a t-shirt? Anything incentivized, other than its been reported and will be fixed in a SP WAY down the line when I have already figure out a work around to the issue.

I applaud the work I have seen members do to report these issues. I hope Hex, is in some way doing something for your efforts to improve their software

Thanks,

An avid PC-DMIS user from the future using PC-DMIS 2022 SP13 with a lot of the same issues with a different UI

[vpt.se]

You get nothing, zilch, nada, zero.

You'd think that you improve the software by filing these things, but that is a very, very slow turning wheel. Even bugs that affects calculations in PC-DMIS are not considered major ones. Let's just hope the user detects the bugs and issues before it affects their production (conforming/non-conforming) unknowingly...

Shitty QA, if you ask me.

[A-machine-insp]

I get where you are coming from but it would be too time consuming to run the software through every single scenario that their customers do. If they did, it would be 5 years between releases and the rollout of new features we ask for would take forever. Who better to help test the software then the customers who put the software through its paces every day. We, as programmers, do more with the program in one day than they could do in 2 years because there are way more of us than their are of them.

I get the frustration, trust me I do, but in the end you are helping make your job easier.

That being said... I wouldn't say no to a nice Hexagon polo shirt...

[vpt.se]

I don't know how things are run at your place, but here, decisions ($$$) based on what the CMM reports say are made every day which calls for a software that is tested to the teeth to not spit out erroneous results. If you are a software developer and cannot understand the importance of this, you should really consider a job change.

[A-machine-insp]

vpt.se We rely on what the CMM report says too but we also realize that no software is 100% bulletproof and certain dimensions, regardless what the CMM says, will be dissected and verified to the best of our abilities either with the CMM or with manual checks.

Again, I understand the frustration because we run into it here too, but realize the size of the team that would be required to run the software through every possible situation that it will encounter out in the field. I think you would get an update every few years and the cost would triple or more because of the manpower that would be required. Even after all that, there might still be some small bugs that would have to be worked through.

I'm not trying to defend Hexagon or bash them, I'm just looking at it from a logical standpoint realizing the size and complexity of the software. They have done a good job so far and I'm sure the company I work for doesn't mind me spending a little time figuring some workarounds to some of these bugs and they have no problem with me sending crash reports and communicating with people, both on here and at Hexagon, to figure out some of these problems. I equate it to the machinists making a setup part out of cheaper material before making the part out of good expensive material. Not an exact equal but it's the best I can come up with at the moment.

[vpt.se]

Of course - but my "beef" is that there are too many issues and the issues related to calculation done in the software must be priority one - which it seems it is not. As an example, autofeature filtering issues (the filtering isn't done at all), the UPR value maxes out at 1000 which is bonkers, etc.

In the end, you will have programs that were made when it was working, program that contains workarounds when it didn't work etc, etc. That stuff needs to be more thoroughly tested prior to release. And if it were discovered prior to release but released anyway, it needs to filed as "known issues" in the readme - but there aren't any, ergo, they didn't test it/find it/chose to not say anything?

[JacobCheverie]

Hey, I received a Hexagon travel mug when my partner and I finished the final project in the level 101 course in RI.

[JacobCheverie]

Man, lucky you. Have fun & let us know how the course goes.

[dph51]

The only thing I came back with was a nasty rash.

[JacobCheverie]

dph51 Did you go to RI? Why did you get a rash? DMIS Fever?

[Kp61dude!]

Hexagon reps in here? If so, can I ask why I am told to submit tickets or report bugs to help fix your software so frequently? Do you compensate my companies annual licensing fee for me talking the time to report a bug to improve YOUR software? Do I get a Hexagon coffee mug sent and an apology for hindering my job from which I make a living from? What about a t-shirt? Anything incentivized, other than its been reported and will be fixed in a SP WAY down the line when I have already figure out a work around to the issue.

I applaud the work I have seen members do to report these issues. I hope Hex, is in some way doing something for your efforts to improve their software

Thanks,

An avid PC-DMIS user from the future using PC-DMIS 2022 SP13 with a lot of the same issues with a different UI

Gets a new job where they run *other CMM software*: "ah In PcDmis we can do that!"...."PcDmis is sooo robust"....."no it's not that difficult to use, it can be totally customized for any level"....."I so miss PcDmis"

JK original poster you have a right to a voice, I have a feeling *they* are listening (more than I've ever seen or noticed) I'm just having a little fun with you, cheer up it could be worse somehow.

[A-machine-insp]

DMIS is the only CMM software I have used and I absolutely do not want to change. I'm 5 years deep in it and only want to learn more and get better with it, not change to a new software.

[davehocum]

I like to know what their excuse is for an issue found with common basic features that affected all PC-DMIS users. Then they say we missed that one. Really, it does not take a whole community of users to find an issue that affected all PC-DMIS users for a common basic feature issue. I feel like the PC-DMIS user community is the main QA for Hexagon. PC-DMIS is the only software at this level that I can have idle in the background with no program open to just on its own stop working. Yep, that PC-DMIS famous dialog window. PC-DMIS has now stop working. I had a customer that have not used PC-DMIS in over ten years ask me. Does PC-DMIS still give a serialization error? I said yep, nothing change. Then he ask me why they have not been able to figure out that issue yet after all these years. I said now, they just say well it happens less now than it did before. He said wow as he shook his head as he walk away. Nice.

[Schrocknroll]

I get where you are coming from but it would be too time consuming to run the software through every single scenario that their customers do. If they did, it would be 5 years between releases and the rollout of new features we ask for would take forever. Who better to help test the software then the customers who put the software through its paces every day. We, as programmers, do more with the program in one day than they could do in 2 years because there are way more of us than their are of them.

I get the frustration, trust me I do, but in the end you are helping make your job easier.

That being said... I wouldn't say no to a nice Hexagon polo shirt...

Personally, I would be perfectly happy with a 99.5% error proof/bulletproof release of PC-DMIS every five years. To me being able to have every function work the way it's supposed to work is way more important than new bells and whistles. Release yearly beta tests if you want, but a couple of times a decade release a top notch error proof version for the working class.

Just my $0.02 before taxes.

[davehocum]

There are two beta releases per year. Then service packs are the actual release. One part is missing. There is not a stable version ever release. Sorry, I was working with Linux distro's this weekend. PC-DMIS unable to recognize the word stable.

[Ego Murphy]

The Future of PC-DMIS Bugs
A short story by Ego Murphy

In the future, Hexagon will finally be sold and the principal shareholders will become quite wealthy.
The buyer will be a company very much larger than Hexagon was, probably one with large, if not dominating, involvement in the 3D modeling and manufacturing software markets.

Hexagon North America (the division that used to be called Hexagon Metrology or the CMM stuff), which is but a small piece of Hexagon's vast global empire, will be included in the sale. This is very important, as despite the small size this little chunk contains a certain cash cow named PC-DMIS SMA Profits that Hexagon really doesn't want to sell but they're going to have to in order to complete the whole deal.

Immediately the sharp axes will trim away the vestiges of Hexagon's Old Boy Network (itself a twisted outgrowth of Brown & Sharp's rotten old network that bankrupted that company) and at the same time many, many talented and smart people will be fleeing Hexagon voluntarily out of fear of the axe. These two exit avenues won't cripple the company but definitely slow it down.

The talented rising stars (i.e, corporate ladder climbers) that the new owners put in charge of their new acquisition will undoubtedly be made away of the notorious bugginess of the cash-cow product, and at the same time a miniscule fraction of the product user base (that's us forum peeps) will launch a vocal smear campaign to broadcast it to the actual target market - the manufacturing concern managers who buy CMMs and CMM software. A ton of money and other resources will be poured into the Software Development Division Formerly Known As Wilcox, and over time a slight improvement will be gradually felt... but not enough. And then someone will display true bravery and make the call: Backwards Compatible will end and a new software foundation will be laid that's reliable and robust.

Here the crystal ball goes cloudy as future paths diverge:
Some new software, or more likely a new hardware-software combo, may disrupt the market and PC-DMIS and Hexagon hardware goes the way of FLB and Sheffield hardware. All the bug fixes in the world can't make buggy whips successful in the custom-chrome-wheels market, right?
A large armed conflict may disrupt the global economy and bankrupt and/or physically destroy those not profiting from it, which can bankrupt vendors such as CMM suppliers.
Unhappy with the poor performance of their new acquisition ("You can't polish a turd but you can roll it in glitter." - Dilbert), the owners may sell Hex off again or even break it up and sell off chunks to other metrology companies eager to grab the huge amount of high-tech Intellectual Property that Hexagon had acquired on it's decades-long spending spree. Perhaps the highest bidder for the PC-DMIS cash cow is a competitor who puts a bullet in it's head, or a young energetic and highly incompetent new company who free-fall into insolvency and fail to maintain the software.

In any case, the bugs will go away eventually. All things must pass.

[AndersI]

There are 'some' inaccuricies in that scenario...

[Kp61dude!]

Fun fact: the owner of Buggy Whips is my coworker!

[louisd]

Just to empathize with Hexagon: Companies would spend $$,$$$ for SMA's each year, with nothing in return... Companies would stop paying, without seeing fruit of their SMA investment.
With an ever shrinking budget and super hungry competitors snatching up market share...
How would they pay for the SW development to stay state of the art AND test/debug to the extent you are expecting?

It seems this is somewhat the course that AutoCAD took. Fifteen-twenty years ago, AutoCAD was probably >90% market dominant across the world. Now they only have about 30% of the market.
I think they slowed down on innovation, and instead focused on customer service/debugging.
They even went and developed a low cost cloud-based software, just to try to compete with the copycats.

If Hexagon slowed down on innovation and acquisitions of potential competitors, and instead invest in perfecting what they currently offer; I feel they'd end up going down a similar path.

[anthony.alfaro]

Some of this may be true, but for a company to think they can dominate a market forever is pretty ignorant. (Look at what happened to the cell phone manufacturers when apple came into the phone market.) Nothing lasts forever. In my opinion, a lot of companies try to do too many things and thin themselves out.

Companies try to ****** (wait, i can't type "S-n-a-t-c-h"?) the new markets on this or that rather than be true to what they do best. Hexagon makes a fantastic machine frame and has a pretty solid software. That's what they should stick to. Hexagon AB is constantly snatching up CAD/CAM software companies and dissolving them into the broader hex network and losing people in the process as Murphy stated. (see, Vero Software, MSC, and others.)

Further, as consumers of the Hexagon product, we have certain expectations of the software. And unfortunately, those expectations include bugs and things that will drive you insane. But i will take those things over having to switch to Calypso or some other software. but what i WILL NOT do is pay an SMA for a software that's has an expectation of Bugs. Sorry, Hex. The yearly SMA costs simply aren't worth it to me. Fortunately, my time at Hex allows me to not have to rely on the support team but there will eventually become a point where i'm far enough behind that logic won't work anymore. But until then, I'm saving my company a few thousand per year.

[louisd]

Not really following the Apple analogy considering they've been making computers and brand-unique interconnected products since the early 80's. In fact, that seems to be exactly what Hexagon has been trying to do (follow/emulate Apple's strategy). They have been swallowing up all automation, manufacturing, measurement/quality organizations, to make brand-unique (and hopefully seamlessly integrated) products, which they can use as leverage to penetrate into new markets.

PCDMIS is a Wilcox product, not a hexagon product. It is a Hexagon branded product now, but the Wilcox PCDMIS has had persistent 'bugs' of varying magnitude since I started using v3.4 back in 2002. It will never be perfect. if you expect otherwise, go try aberlink, mcosmos, collapse-o, easycmm, quindos, or other competing products. I guarantee you will come back begging the demon for forgiveness, like I have, lol.

[davehocum]

While this bug issue is going on in the form I seen this on the screen after break with PC_DMIS just there idle no program open.

Error Call Dependency.PNG

Then less than five minutes this message displayed on the other machine with a program open.

Before this error, I find a program that has been running off and on for weeks with no issues. Now has a circle hits depth setting at 2 inches instead of .2. The program works great as long as you leave it. If I did not have to make any change to the program, I would have never known that there was an issue. PC-DMIS 2018 R1.

[anthony.alfaro]

Great. Unforunately, when i was still with Hex PW would flat our refuse to let us try/play with their CNC CMM software so i have no experience with it but i do have experience with the arms/scanning (including the photogrammetry) portions of PW. I loved it.

[davehocum]

Awesome. Thank you Anthony.alfaro for the info.

[vpt.se]

Guys, don't complain. The software is complex. You just don't get it.

(j/k)