What is this on the drawing?

[zoolander303]

Below by the 6A in red what is the M1 because it doesn't look like a traditional datum target, unless there stating they want all 3 holes at MMC of 1 MM? This print has been redrawn by customer multiple times and just trying to make sense of it? For datum D i just constructed a set out of all 3 six mm holes and defined the set as D.




https://attachment.outlook.live.net/...animation=true

[A-machine-insp]

Try attaching the image again. I'm seeing nothing.

[zoolander303]

Try attaching the image again. I'm seeing nothing.

Should work now, I have had a back and forth with this customer on this part because how they want it dimensioned won't work, they call mostly everything out as basic, and I can't do a proper datum alignment with this thing if i do it just spins the cad model.

[TAMIL]

As per the print, D is only the particular hole where they mentioned as Datum D. You can see all the co-ordinates call-out based on that hole only.

[Schlag]

That is not how basic dimensions work. The feature control frame dictates the 0.00 location, not where the basic locations may be generated from.

[A-machine-insp]

I agree with TAMIL , I would set Datum D as the one hole the arrow is pointing to.

[Schlag]

It says 3X. Why would 1 hole be the datum ?

[AndersI]

But what the print *says* is that the full three hole pattern is the datum (could constrain both location and rotation).

[JGRIFFIN]

I agree with Andersl. ASME Y14.5 2009 FIG 4-26

[RandomJerk]

In the 1994 standard, Fig. 4-22, ¶4.5.8

[zoolander303]

thanks guys so should i set the origin at the constructed set of D? that's what i was going to do, so how do i rotate the set without spinning the cad model? When I try to align it just rotates on z like ten degrees or so, Also when I try calling out the D Material Modifier to B it doesn't work states I'm not perpindicular. I usually don't have issues but this just isn't working out even the distances from hole to hole isn't at the print dimensioned tolerance Im using the Z plus axis.

[Schrocknroll]

Addressing your original question about M1, to me it looks like it's the 1st change of Rev M on the print. If my guess is correct, you should have a list of changes in one of the upper corners of the print with a list of changes for M. The first in the list should reference a change to that callout.

If your print isn't up to M, then I don't have another guess at the moment.

[KIRBSTER269]

I'm with Schrock on this one. or relating to a Note, but leaning more toward Shrocks statement. A lot of people don't read the notes anymore. Ugg,... what's with all this reading

[Quality ish]

I've got a customer that used to be based in Germany. As a result, most of their older prints are first angle projection, the decimal places are commas, and the notes are all in German.

To that end, I've mandated to the "powers that be" that I need access to the internet to go to a translator (such as Google translate) to see what the notes are calling out. It's not perfect, but it usually sets me on the right track.

[louisd]

M1 could be an internal AQL sampling or dimensional categorization of the feature, for MRB evaluation. At other employers, we had "Key" or "Critical" dimensions which had zero tolerance for MRB use-as-is dispo's, if even 0.000001 out of spec. Then, we had "Major" categorized dimensions, which mandated SPC data for lot acceptance, and another more lax categorization for MRB.

My guess is this is a Major-categorized dimension.

[TAMIL]

According to me (with my experience in working with castings in automobile industry), M1 is Mount 1 which will assemble with the next part. Hence that is base of assembly and so the rest of the dimensions are called out based on that hole.

[zoolander303]

so i should set my origin at that hole? This ones been throwing me for a loop, example when I callout the two holes on the bottom flange to the hole where the arrow is pointing on D it comes up like a millimeter under what it should be and I am using a Zplus workplace.

[TAMIL]

May i know which are the A,B and C datums???
Rotation takes main part in these type of issues.

[Quality ish]

In a situation like you're in, I get on the phone with the engineers. If they can't answer it, they can contact the customer to find out the meaning of the notation.

If nothing else, the customer SHOULD appreciate the fact that you're making every effort to approve conforming parts.

(Unless the parts are already 3 weeks late. Then they're probably not going to call the customer, and just make something up... That's how engineers roll.)

[zoolander303]

A is the top plane, B is the side flange I take as a plane, C is a line from what it looks like on the side of that flange. I tried rotating B but anything I rotate it spins my cad model like 5-10 degrees on z axis. I tried the traditional 3-2-1 manual alignment couldn't' get it to work.

[TAMIL]

Then in this case you have to contact the engineers as Quality ish said.

[zoolander303]

A is the top plane, B is the side flange I take as a plane, C is a line from what it looks like on the side of that flange. I tried rotating B but anything I rotate it spins my cad model like 5-10 degrees on z axis. I tried the traditional 3-2-1 manual alignment couldn't' get it to work.

Okay thanks

[Quality ish]

https://www.pcdmisforum.com/filedata/fetch?id=457191&type=thumb

Construct a line between Planes A and B.

Align as follows: Level Z plane to the A datum (plane), rotate to line created between A/B, and originate to the point where A,B, and C intersect. Of course, if the bend is hinky, it'll throw the dims off, but it's the best I can offer off the top of my head.

I think in this way, you're not going to get the rotation you're talking about.

[zoolander303]

What line should i construct a intersection, offset, best fit? Ill try it tomorrow as you stated a phone call with customer needs to happen wondering if you guys have these situations as well in your career?