PC-DMIS 2013 NIST application does not work with 2019 R2

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  • PC-DMIS 2013 NIST application does not work with 2019 R2

    I am running the NIST test downloaded from Hexagon after updating to 2019 R2 and it is not running at all. It starts parsing the files then after a few seconds I get the error message linked below. I did not have this issue with 2015 to 2019 R1. This is the first time I have seen this. We have five CMMs and I'm in the process of updating all of them to R2. I have three of them done so far and all three give me the same error message.

    Is anyone else having this issue and/or know how to fix it?

    I tried uninstalling the NIST test then redownloading and installing it with the same result.


    EDIT TO ADD!!!! I need to clarify that I am NOT getting a "NIST failed" message. It is not failing the NIST test, it is just not running the test. It is giving me an error when the test starts and therefor doesn't run the test at all.

    Edit to add again: I wish I could change the title but it wont let me. The post title does not reflect the exact problem and sounds worse then it is.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by A-machine-insp; 08-30-2019, 08:45 AM.
    "Do what I want you to do, not what I tell you to do."

    -Me

  • #2
    I too, am required to run the NIST test after installs. I have not seen this error before. I was going to update all of our licenses to 2019 R2 next week. Have you tried making PCDMIS visible when executing? If yes, what do you see? Is it creating the part programs as intended?

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    Comment


    • A-machine-insp
      A-machine-insp commented
      Editing a comment
      JacobCheverie we did get called out on it (before I started working here) and since then we run the test as soon as a new version is installed. We run it on every computer that runs DMIS even if it an offline seat.

      We don't get the numerical result, we just get a pass/fail cert from the test.

      3.1.3 specifically states validation of the software.
      Last edited by A-machine-insp; 08-30-2019, 09:55 AM.

    • JacobCheverie
      JacobCheverie commented
      Editing a comment
      A-machine-insp Thanks for the heads up, I guess I have some work to do.

    • A-machine-insp
      A-machine-insp commented
      Editing a comment
      JacobCheverie it's not difficult or too time consuming. Easy to run and, depending on the speed of your computer, between 10 and 30 minutes to run.

  • #3
    Don Ruggieri
    neil.challinor
    Peter Fuller
    Brian Gudauskas

    Wow.

    Comment


    • #4
      We do run NIST before we release, multiple times
      We do not have this issue
      We will determine what the issue is and get it resolved for you

      Are you running the NIST app As Administrator?
      Last edited by Don Ruggieri; 08-29-2019, 09:34 PM.

      Comment


      • #5
        Hello All,

        We will look into the issue. We do run the tests multiple times before releasing the software. We fired our tests now and will update you the test results once after they are done.
        Regards,

        Krishna Chaitanya Velisetty
        Metrology Software Applications Specialist,
        Hexagon Manufacturing Intelligence.

        Comment


        • #6
          The NIST test, is it only testing the creation of geometrical features or does it do more (filtering etc)?

          Where can I find this test?
          PC-DMIS CAD++ 2o19 R1 SP4

          Comment


          • cvelisetty
            cvelisetty commented
            Editing a comment
            Yes AndersI. PC-DMIS before getting released into marked, it goes through both NIST and PTB procedures to get certified. Hexagon need to pay for the datasets.

          • vpt.se
            vpt.se commented
            Editing a comment
            Thanks guys!

          • A-machine-insp
            A-machine-insp commented
            Editing a comment
            It's available for free from hexagon.
            HTML Code:
            https://support.hexagonmi.com/s/article/NIST-Setup-2012-1528374090397
            You will need to be signed in to the website to access the download. Unzip the download, install, and run on anything from 2012 (guessing there) to 2019 R1 (apparently).

        • #7
          Dear A-machine-insp & All,

          The NIST APP that you are using for execution is meant to handle PC-DMIS Versions upto 2019 R1. We are yet to release the app which will also include the current release version PC-DMIS 2019 R2. That is the reason for the error that you are facing when executing the tests.

          We are working on releasing a new application which will also handle PC-DMIS 2019 R2. We will keep you all posted.
          Regards,

          Krishna Chaitanya Velisetty
          Metrology Software Applications Specialist,
          Hexagon Manufacturing Intelligence.

          Comment


          • A-machine-insp
            A-machine-insp commented
            Editing a comment
            What kind of timeline are we looking at? I know that RIDER and myself (and surely others) have to run it to meet our customers QAS and DPD requirements. I like running R2 and want to continue to do so but without this, we have no choice but to go back to R1.

        • #8
          Originally posted by cvelisetty View Post
          Dear A-machine-insp & All,

          The NIST APP that you are using for execution is meant to handle PC-DMIS Versions upto 2019 R1. We are yet to release the app which will also include the current release version PC-DMIS 2019 R2. That is the reason for the error that you are facing when executing the tests.

          We are working on releasing a new application which will also handle PC-DMIS 2019 R2. We will keep you all posted.
          So...Hexagon DIDN'T test the NIST app to verify it worked properly. What checks and balances are used to assure that when a new version of the software is released, that the NIST app is updated as well? Obviously, proper protocol wasn't followed. Quite disappointing.
          Last edited by bfire85; 08-30-2019, 06:59 AM.

          Comment


          • Don Ruggieri
            Don Ruggieri commented
            Editing a comment
            YES, we did test it properly. We run NIST with and before every release. Then, we bundle it with the latest data sets and make it available to the public as a standalone application. We are still working on that part. Making the NIST application available to the public is something we do voluntarily to help customers that want to run it for themselves. As was stated, we are still working on that part.

          • AndersI
            AndersI commented
            Editing a comment
            Just guessing: They probably have an internal version of the app for the release testing, giving them more detailed info about anything that goes wrong.

          • A-machine-insp
            A-machine-insp commented
            Editing a comment
            Don Ruggieri Since it is the actual NIST datasets put into a DMIS program, could it be considered "independent of the software developer"?

        • #9
          After rereading the post title again this morning, it sounds worse than it actually is. Please let me reiterate that DMIS is NOT failing the NIST test, it just won't run the test provided by Hexagon.

          I know Hexagon has NIST certification for 2019 R2 so I am not concerned about the software at all. All I need is to run the NIST test after install to satisfy our customers QAS and DPD requirements.

          If any moderators have the power to change post titles, please change it to "2019 R2 will not run NIST test".
          "Do what I want you to do, not what I tell you to do."

          -Me

          Comment


          • #10
            The latest seems to be for 2013 MR1

            https://support.hexagonmi.com/s/arti...-1528372905929
            PC-DMIS CAD++ 2o19 R1 SP4

            Comment


            • A-machine-insp
              A-machine-insp commented
              Editing a comment
              2013 version is running. It threw the same error, I clicked "ok" and it started running it.

            • Don Ruggieri
              Don Ruggieri commented
              Editing a comment
              That's good news, but you should jump ahead to the latest available NIST app, 2019 R1 I believe. We will continue to pursue the cause of this error

            • A-machine-insp
              A-machine-insp commented
              Editing a comment
              Don Ruggieri where do I find these other versions? All the searching I do takes me back to the 2012 version. We've been using the 2012 test since I started here 3 years ago and it has worked up until 2019 R2.

          • #11
            Don Ruggieri where can we find the latest nist app. searching around the support site the latest i can see is the 2012. i can find the 2019 R1 cert documentation but not the app.

            would you pleas post a link



            edit: found the 2013 mr1
            https://support.hexagonmi.com/s/arti...-1528372905929

            edit:
            The following article was posted april 2019. so the most recent article i can find about the nist test points to the 2012 test.

            https://support.hexagonmi.com/s/arti...-1527312018370
            Certain manufacturers require NIST testing as a part of their supplier certification. That test can be downloaded here: NIST Setup 2012 (must be signed in to download).
            Last edited by mckenzie; 08-30-2019, 10:13 AM.
            sigpic

            Comment


            • A-machine-insp
              A-machine-insp commented
              Editing a comment
              mckenzie I just did the same thing and found the same as you. Making these tests (not just the results) more prominent and easier to find would be nice for those of us who are required to do the test at our facilities.

            • A-machine-insp
              A-machine-insp commented
              Editing a comment
              The 2013 test ended up being a bust for me. I got the error message from the original post but it kept running the test after clicking "ok" the it just stopped about half way through. No error, crash, closing by it's self, or anything like that. It just froze. I had to open task manager to force shutdown.

              2012 caused the original problem.

          • #12
            The subject caught my eye, so after reading this thread.... a few observations.

            One time I asked Don Ruggieri about any PC-DMIS certs/validation my company could gets hands on for 2015.1 or whatever it was, (for audits/peace of mind/paper-shufflers).....
            I ended up with a doc from a Dr. from NIST who had exercised the software and stated PC-DMIS appeared to do what Demon promised. (or something like that....paraphrasing)
            Definitely not a certificate or validation from NIST. (I recall Don and I agreed that IF NIST hard stamped PC-DMIS as verified, a buttload of lawyers would be required.)
            Even my current company states it is 'Black Box' software/algorithms and only 'verifies' locally stuff like the E-stop works and the jogbox goes N-axis when you push it to N-axis.

            That was good enough for me. I filed it somewhere in case someone asked.
            Other company folk who new every sentence in the regulations from FDA, FAA, USDA, etc.... well, I figured they could go find what their meetings needed. I had little to contribute.

            For me? when it comes to a new release, the Hexagon customer (you.. the programmer) should know what you may have to present if you're called to a meeting.
            If you need this NIST program? Don't use the Demon release if you were not to able to run it. (N/B) I download latest anything from Wilcox FTP, but only USE tested. The new play toys go into the sandbox - quarantined from production.
            Hexagon? You stated that NIST (for 2019 R2) was complete prior to release. BY Hexagon. There's a lot of excuse in this thread. Stop releasing to customers a version that they can't access the NIST utility as well. Period.
            THAT is on you guys, Hexagon! Unfortunately, you need to be responsible because a customer needs protection from them self.

            Comment


            • #13
              Originally posted by sealevel View Post
              Hexagon? You stated that NIST (for 2019 R2) was complete prior to release. BY Hexagon. There's a lot of excuse in this thread. Stop releasing to customers a version that they can't access the NIST utility as well. Period.
              THAT is on you guys, Hexagon! Unfortunately, you need to be responsible because a customer needs protection from them self.
              start of excuses. . . .

              We do put each version through the NIST testing before its release. Unfortunately, NIST being a government organization, there is a fair amount of bureaucracy. The turnaround time for the invoicing, payment, and paperwork is not as fast as we'd like. We make these (results) available for download as soon as we get them.

              The customer test app is another story. The application itself has not changed in a long time. All we do from version to version is to add another (the newest) data set that was used as the test case from NIST. The data has nothing to do with the version of the PC-DMIS software, its just another randomized set so that we do not cheat and re-submit our answers from a previous set. You can run (almost) any of the previous NIST applications to test and of the newer PC-DMIS releases, to a point. While even the 2012 NIST app should work, with newer operating systems and updates, that is not always guaranteed, we do not test every combination of older NIST apps and newer systems. The NIST app for 2019 R2 is NOT any different than that for 2019 R1, except that it has one more randomized data set.

              Having said that, our systems have been going through a sort of re-structuring recently, and even the newer NIST apps were not as accessible as they should have been. The only ones that were readily available were from 2012 and 2013.

              end of excuses . . .


              We are going to make available the more current NIST applications, through 2019 R1, within the next 48 hours
              We will publish the newer NIST app with the most recent data set, within the coming week

              Comment


              • Don Ruggieri
                Don Ruggieri commented
                Editing a comment
                OK, so I know my "48 hours" is up, and truthfully we have the application ready to go. I am just working within Hexagon to place it in the appropriate place on their server. Please understand, it never was a commercially developed app, more like a utility app that does not have a lot of UI or user friendly approach. Depending on the feedback, we will try to incorporate more of that in the future.

              • A-machine-insp
                A-machine-insp commented
                Editing a comment
                Don Ruggieri email me a copy of it and I'll give it a go. We can call it "NIST Technical Preview"...

              • Don Ruggieri
                Don Ruggieri commented
                Editing a comment
                Log in to the Hexagon Support page and check the featured article on the bottom right for the NIST customer application for 2019 R1. As I mentioned, we are working on the same for 2019 R2, still, this should work for either case, the only difference being 2019 R2 app will have one more dataset. We are aware of an improvement to this app, and will update it when we get that done, likely next week. It has to do with the need to set the AutoProjRefPlane to 0 in the Settings Editor prior to running this test. Please be sure to take the latest from the Hexagon support site whenever you need to use this utility.
                Last edited by Don Ruggieri; 09-06-2019, 11:42 AM.

            • #14
              Thanx Don. I appreciate the time you took into giving a detailed answer. As a bonus, when Hexagon publishes the newer NIST app, could you guys put it up as a sticky?
              If that's not possible, a link in a reply would be nice! Or make it easily found at the Support/Downloads site, or......

              Comment


            • #15
              Originally posted by A-machine-insp View Post
              I am running the NIST test downloaded from Hexagon after updating to 2019 R2 and it is not running at all. It starts parsing the files then after a few seconds I get the error message linked below. I did not have this issue with 2015 to 2019 R1. This is the first time I have seen this. We have five CMMs and I'm in the process of updating all of them to R2. I have three of them done so far and all three give me the same error message.

              Is anyone else having this issue and/or know how to fix it?

              I tried uninstalling the NIST test then redownloading and installing it with the same result.


              EDIT TO ADD!!!! I need to clarify that I am NOT getting a "NIST failed" message. It is not failing the NIST test, it is just not running the test. It is giving me an error when the test starts and therefor doesn't run the test at all.

              Edit to add again: I wish I could change the title but it wont let me. The post title does not reflect the exact problem and sounds worse then it is.
              by the way, I found a case where I was able to see the same error as was reported here originally, even using a more recent NIST utility app. I ran PC-DMIS, left it running, and then ran the NIST app. I believe they were both run As Administrator. When I let it start to process, this error occurred. This is because the app uses PC-DMIS automation to instantiate and link up to the PC-DMIS application. If PC-DMIS is already running, this conflicts with the process. It is possible to predict and prevent this, but as I've said before, this is a small utility application provided free of charge for select customers that need to see for themselves what we are doing. The difference is that we follow a specific workflow, and never spent the time and resources to document it nor harden the software to avoid problems. As we go forward, we will take some steps to improve the user experience for those that need to run this application on their own systems.

              https://support.hexagonmi.com/s/

              Comment


              • A-machine-insp
                A-machine-insp commented
                Editing a comment
                I did forget to mention Don Ruggieri that I had DMIS closed when I started the NIST app. I know that the NIST app initiates DMIS so left it closed so the app could start DMIS.

              • mckenzie
                mckenzie commented
                Editing a comment
                if it makes a difference the program crashed at pnt256 in the edit window.

                i followed the workflow in the readme. there was not an instance of pcdlearn in the task manager before starting. maybe i didnt wait long enough from the time i closed pcdmis and started the nist test. usually pcdlearn takes a bit before it clears from the task manager. ill try again with the wait in a bit

              • mckenzie
                mckenzie commented
                Editing a comment
                same error at the same point. interestingly enough watching the task manager when the nist test opened pcdmis a second instance of pcdmis kept appearing and disappearing for the first minute. i waited until it settled down to a single instance before clicking on parse.

                just for the record we don't need to run the test, just trying to independently replicate the error conditions

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