True Position Question

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  • True Position Question

    im probably missing something basic.

    part is basically a block with a bore through the top face. the true position datum structure

    is ABD a=top face b= back face d= left edge

    if i measure the hole location against the datums individually as a distance i get within .015mm but the TP is way out. see pic

    any help is appreciated.

    001.png



    sigpic

  • #2
    Code:
    part name  : 0041-56149
    rev number : 03
    ser number :
    Stats count : 1
    
    startup    =alignment/start,recall:use_part_setup,list=yes
                alignment/end
                mode/manual
                format/text,options, ,headings,symbols, ;nom,tol,meas,dev,outtol, ,
                loadprobe/2x40
                tip/t1a0b0, shankijk=0, 0, 1, angle=0
                movespeed/ 50
    c1         =comment/yesno,no,full screen=no,auto-continue=no,
                do you want to do a manual alignment?
                Assign/v1=c1.inputvalue
                if_goto/v1==1,goto = l1_start_here
                if_goto/v1==2,goto = l2_start_here
    l1_start_here=label/
    pln1       =feat/contact/plane/default,cartesian,outline,least_sqr
                theo/<45.453,5.934,19>,<0,0,1>
                actl/<106.64,326.642,-727.696>,<0.0001013,0.0020172,0.999998>
                targ/<45.453,5.934,19>,<0,0,1>
                angle vec=<1,0,0>,square
                show feature parameters=yes
                  void detection=no
                  surface=thickness_none,0
                  measure mode=nominals
                  rmeas=none,none,none
                  auto wrist=yes
                  graphical analysis=no
                  feature locator=no,no,""
                show contact parameters=yes
                  numhits=2,numrows=2
                  spacer=85
                  avoidance move=no,distance=10
                show hits=no
    a1         =alignment/start,recall:startup,list=yes
                  alignment/level,zplus,pln1
                  alignment/trans,zaxis,pln1
                alignment/end
    lin1       =feat/contact/line/default,cartesian,unbounded
                theo/<-10.486,28,0>,<1,0,0>,<0,-1,0>,<0,0,1>,17.539
                actl/<62.327,355.175,-0.666>,<0.9999999,-0.0003381,0>,<-0.0003381,-0.9999999,0>,<0.0001013,0.0020172,0.999998>,6.504
                targ/<-10.486,28,0>,<1,0,0>,<0,-1,0>,<0,0,1>
                show feature parameters=yes
                  void detection=no
                  surface1=thickness_none,0
                  surface2=thickness_none,0
                  measure mode=nominals
                  rmeas=none,none,none
                  auto wrist=yes
                  graphical analysis=no
                  feature locator=no,no,""
                show contact parameters=yes
                  numhits=3,depth=3
                  sample method=sample_hits
                  sample hits=0,spacer=0,indent1=0,indent2=0
                  avoidance move=no,distance=10
                show hits=no
    a2         =alignment/start,recall:a1,list=yes
                  alignment/level,zplus,pln1
                  alignment/trans,zaxis,pln1
                  alignment/rotate,xplus,to,lin1,about,zplus
                  alignment/trans,yaxis,lin1
                alignment/end
    cir1       =feat/contact/circle/default,cartesian,in,least_sqr
                theo/<80,-28,0>,<0,0,1>,47.05
                actl/<147.32,-28.032,0>,<0,0,1>,47.035
                targ/<80,-28,0>,<0,0,1>
                start ang=0,end ang=360
                angle vec=<1,0,0>
                direction=ccw
                show feature parameters=yes
                  void detection=no
                  remeasure=no
                  surface=thickness_none,0
                  measure mode=nominals
                  rmeas=none,none,none
                  auto wrist=yes
                  graphical analysis=no
                  feature locator=no,no,""
                show contact parameters=yes
                  numhits=4,depth=3,pitch=0
                  sample method=sample_hits
                  sample hits=0,spacer=0
                  avoidance move=no,distance=10
                  find hole=disabled,onerror=no,read pos=no
                show hits=no
    a3         =alignment/start,recall:a2,list=yes
                  alignment/level,zplus,pln1
                  alignment/trans,zaxis,pln1
                  alignment/rotate,xplus,to,lin1,about,zplus
                  alignment/trans,xaxis,cir1
                  alignment/trans,yaxis,cir1
                alignment/end
    l2_start_here=label/
                mode/dcc
                clearp/zplus,10,zplus,10,on
                move/clearplane
    pln2       =feat/contact/plane/default,cartesian,outline,least_sqr
                theo/<-38.264,-1.213,0>,<0,0,1>
                actl/<-38.263,-1.212,-0.009>,<-0.0000336,0.0000178,1>
                targ/<-38.264,-1.213,0>,<0,0,1>
                angle vec=<1,0,0>,square
                show feature parameters=yes
                  void detection=no
                  surface=thickness_none,0
                  measure mode=nominals
                  rmeas=none,none,none
                  auto wrist=no
                  circular moves=straight
                  graphical analysis=no
                  feature locator=no,no,""
                show contact parameters=yes
                  numhits=2,numrows=2
                  spacer=66
                  avoidance move=both,distance=10
                show hits=no
    a4         =alignment/start,recall:a3,list=yes
                  alignment/level,zplus,pln2
                  alignment/trans,zaxis,pln2
                alignment/end
                move/clearplane
    lin2       =feat/contact/line/default,cartesian,unbounded
                theo/<-101.146,55.3,0>,<1,0,0>,<0,1,0>,<0,0,1>,94.983
                actl/<-101.148,55.303,0.003>,<1,0.0001432,0>,<-0.0001432,1,0>,<0.0000677,0.0020351,0.9999979>,94.983
                targ/<-101.146,55.3,0>,<1,0,0>,<0,1,0>,<0,0,1>
                show feature parameters=yes
                  void detection=no
                  surface1=thickness_none,0
                  surface2=thickness_none,0
                  measure mode=nominals
                  rmeas=none,none,none
                  auto wrist=no
                  graphical analysis=no
                  feature locator=no,no,""
                show contact parameters=yes
                  numhits=3,depth=3
                  sample method=sample_hits
                  sample hits=0,spacer=0,indent1=0,indent2=0
                  avoidance move=no,distance=10
                show hits=no
                move/clearplane
    cir2       =feat/contact/circle/default,cartesian,in,least_sqr
                theo/<0,0,0>,<0,0,1>,47.05
                actl/<-0.005,-0.002,0>,<0,0,1>,47.017
                targ/<0,0,0>,<0,0,1>
                start ang=0,end ang=360
                angle vec=<1,0,0>
                direction=ccw
                show feature parameters=yes
                  void detection=no
                  remeasure=no
                  surface=thickness_none,0
                  measure mode=nominals
                  rmeas=none,none,none
                  auto wrist=no
                  circular moves=straight
                  graphical analysis=no
                  feature locator=no,no,""
                show contact parameters=yes
                  numhits=7,depth=2,pitch=0
                  sample method=sample_hits
                  sample hits=0,spacer=0
                  avoidance move=no,distance=10
                  find hole=disabled,onerror=no,read pos=no
                show hits=no
    sigpic

    Comment


    • #3
      Code:
      A5         =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:A4,LIST=YES
                    ALIGNMENT/LEVEL,ZPLUS,PLN2
                    ALIGNMENT/TRANS,ZAXIS,PLN2
                    ALIGNMENT/ROTATE,XPLUS,TO,LIN2,ABOUT,ZPLUS
                    ALIGNMENT/TRANS,XAXIS,CIR2
                    ALIGNMENT/TRANS,YAXIS,CIR2
                  ALIGNMENT/END
                  MOVE/CLEARPLANE
      LIN10      =FEAT/CONTACT/LINE/ADAPTIVE_LINEAR_SCAN,CARTESIAN,UNBOUNDED
                  THEO/<-119.863,-2.916,0>,<0,1,0>,<-1,0,0>,<0,0,1>,52.947
                  ACTL/<-119.871,-1.408,0.051>,<-0.0000813,1,0>,<-1,-0.0000813,0>,<0.0000677,0.0020351,0.9999979>,49.663
                  TARG/<-119.863,-2.916,0>,<0,1,0>,<-1,0,0>,<0,0,1>
                  SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=YES
                    VOID DETECTION=NO
                    SURFACE1=THICKNESS_NONE,0
                    SURFACE2=THICKNESS_NONE,0
                    MEASURE MODE=NOMINALS
                    RMEAS=NONE,NONE,NONE
                    AUTO WRIST=NO
                    GRAPHICAL ANALYSIS=NO
                    FEATURE LOCATOR=NO,NO,""
                  SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
                    NUMHITS=5,DEPTH=3
                    SAMPLE METHOD=SAMPLE_HITS
                    SAMPLE HITS=0,SPACER=0,INDENT1=0,INDENT2=0
                    AVOIDANCE MOVE=NO,DISTANCE=10
                  SHOW HITS=NO
                  MOVE/CLEARPLANE
                  WORKPLANE/YPLUS
      PLN5       =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,OUTLINE,LEAST_SQR
                  THEO/<-40.179,55.3,-5.064>,<0,1,0>
                  ACTL/<-40.179,55.313,-5.064>,<-0.0000078,1,-0.0000865>
                  TARG/<-40.179,55.3,-5.064>,<0,1,0>
                  ANGLE VEC=<-1,0,0>,SQUARE
                  SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=YES
                    VOID DETECTION=NO
                    SURFACE=THICKNESS_NONE,0
                    MEASURE MODE=NOMINALS
                    RMEAS=NONE,NONE,NONE
                    AUTO WRIST=NO
                    CIRCULAR MOVES=STRAIGHT
                    GRAPHICAL ANALYSIS=NO
                    FEATURE LOCATOR=NO,NO,""
                  SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
                    NUMHITS=12,NUMROWS=2
                    SPACER=6
                    AVOIDANCE MOVE=BOTH,DISTANCE=10
                  SHOW HITS=NO
                  WORKPLANE/ZPLUS
                  MOVE/CLEARPLANE
      A6         =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:A5,LIST=YES
                    ALIGNMENT/LEVEL,ZPLUS,PLN2
                    ALIGNMENT/TRANS,ZAXIS,PLN2
                    ALIGNMENT/ROTATE,XPLUS,TO,,ABOUT,ZPLUS
                    ALIGNMENT/TRANS,YAXIS,PLN5
                    ALIGNMENT/TRANS,XAXIS,LIN10
                  ALIGNMENT/END
                  MOVE/CLEARPLANE
      CIR21      =FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/ADAPTIVE_CIRCLE_SCAN,CARTESIAN,IN,MAX_INSC
                  THEO/<119.863,-55.3,0>,<0,0,1>,47.05
                  ACTL/<119.871,-55.313,0>,<0,0,1>,47.012
                  TARG/<119.863,-55.3,0>,<0,0,1>
                  START ANG=0,END ANG=360
                  ANGLE VEC=<1,0,0>
                  DIRECTION=CCW
                  SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=YES
                    VOID DETECTION=NO
                    REMEASURE=NO
                    SURFACE=THICKNESS_NONE,0
                    MEASURE MODE=NOMINALS
                    RMEAS=NONE,NONE,NONE
                    AUTO WRIST=NO
                    CIRCULAR MOVES=STRAIGHT
                    GRAPHICAL ANALYSIS=NO
                    FEATURE LOCATOR=NO,NO,""
                  SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
                    NUMHITS=7,DEPTH=2,PITCH=0
                    SAMPLE METHOD=SAMPLE_HITS
                    SAMPLE HITS=0,SPACER=0
                    AVOIDANCE MOVE=NO,DISTANCE=10
                    FIND HOLE=DISABLED,ONERROR=NO,READ POS=NO
                  SHOW HITS=NO
                  MOVE/CLEARPLANE
                  DATDEF/A,FEATURES=PLN2,,
                  DATDEF/B,FEATURES=PLN5,,
                  DATDEF/D,FEATURES=LIN10,,
      FCFLOC1 =POSITION : CIR21
                  FEATCTRLFRAME/SHOWNOMS=NO,SHOWPARAMS=YES,SHOWEXPANDED=YES,
                  CADGRAPH=BOTH,REPORTGRAPH=OFF,TEXT=OFF,MULT=10.00,ARROWDENSITY=100,OUTPUT=BOTH,UNITS=MM,
                  COMPOSITE=NO,FIT TO DATUMS=YES,DEV PERPEN CENTERLINE=ON,OUTPUT ALIGNMENT=Datum Reference Frame
                  CUSTOMIZED DRF=NO
                  STANDARDTYPE=ASME_Y14_5
                    SIZE TOLERANCES/1,DIAMETER,47.05,0,0.04
                    PRIMARY DIMENSION/POSITION,DIAMETER,0.03,MMC,A,B,D
                    SECONDARY DIMENSION/,<tol>,<MC>,<dat>,<dat>,<dat>
                    NOTE/FCFLOC1
                  FEATURES/CIR21,,
      DIM Y= 2D DISTANCE FROM PLANE PLN5 TO CIRCLE CIR21 PAR TO   YAXIS,NO_RADIUS  UNITS=MM,$
      GRAPH=OFF  TEXT=OFF  MULT=10.00  OUTPUT=BOTH
      AX    NOMINAL       +TOL       -TOL       MEAS        DEV     OUTTOL
      M       55.300      0.015      0.015     55.313      0.013      0.000 --------#
      DIM X= 2D DISTANCE FROM LINE LIN10 TO CIRCLE CIR21 PAR TO   XAXIS,NO_RADIUS  UNITS=MM,$
      GRAPH=OFF  TEXT=OFF  MULT=10.00  OUTPUT=BOTH
      AX    NOMINAL       +TOL       -TOL       MEAS        DEV     OUTTOL
      M      119.863      0.015      0.015    119.871      0.008      0.000 ------#--
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #4
        mckenzie You are missing a ROTATE TO feature... in A6. Didn't think it was supposed to affect FCFs with all 6 DOF locked down, but try it and see.
        Last edited by RIDER; 08-19-2019, 06:13 PM.
        153010 Global Advantage w/ LSPX1H_T Analog Probe
        7107 Global Classic TP20
        2019R1 SP1 CAD++

        Comment


        • #5
          What version you using ? I may sound like IT ( have you tried robooting ?? ) delete your " dimension " and re-create. and.... I know it is a position callout and you lineal is a reference but a position of .03 is not going to come out at +/- .015. More like +/-.010 would be a safer . This is always assuming the same deviation in both directions as well.

          Yeah..... that's metric but I guess it still applies !
          Last edited by Schlag; 08-19-2019, 06:19 PM.

          Comment


          • mckenzie
            mckenzie commented
            Editing a comment
            sorry missed on of your questions - 2019R2

        • #6
          A6 is not rotating to anything. You could try totating Y+ to PLN5 and dimension with Legacy.

          If you prefer Xact, if you haven't deleted and recreated the Xact dimension, that would be the first thing to try because Xact dims get corrupted sometimes

          Comment


          • Mike Ruff
            Mike Ruff commented
            Editing a comment
            Dang, I guess I was a little too slow. People suggested all my ideas as I was typing it out haha

        • #7
          PCDMIS might be whacked with a plane as A and B. Try A as a plane, B as a line, D as a point. Or change the alignment to Current Alignment to see if anything changes.

          Also test changing the GD&T Standard to CUSTOM and taking the Fit to Datums and Perp to CL off and using your Current Alignment.

          Comment


          • #8
            Originally posted by bfire85 View Post
            Or change the alignment to Current Alignment to see if anything changes.
            Try this ^^
            PC-DMIS CAD++ 2o19 R1 SP10

            Comment


            • #9
              Switching between Current alignment and Datum Reference Frame should not have any effect on the TP result, as it only decides which coordinate system is used in the Summary. But switch on SHOWNOMS in the FCF TP, and verify that the nominal values are correct for the chosen coordinate system.
              AndersI
              SW support - Hexagon Metrology Nordic AB

              Comment


              • #10
                Thanks everyone.

                i fixed the alignment rotation, and changed datum b back to a line. i deleted and recreated the dimension. restarted the computer and the cmm,. changed from DRF to current alignment. no changes to the deviations. each change was done individually and then collectively.

                creating the dimension again and changing the GD&T system to custom and unchecking fit to datums and perp to c/l swapped the deviations in X and Y

                oh and double checked the x and y nominals, they were/are correct
                sigpic

                Comment


                • #11
                  002.png
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    if you dimension in legacy, does it come out right?

                    Make sure the nominals for your datum features are 100% correct as well when using xact. Vectors and everything. If you're using a CAD model, open the auto-features you're basing the datums on and do a cad nominal refresh.
                    Ex-Hex

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      So started over from scratch and rewrote the program just in case there was some artifact hanging around causing an issue.

                      the new program only measures the datum features as plane, line, point and the bore as a circle.

                      the results are similar. the reported x and y deviations reported the position dimension are way out but the actual TP matches the deviations in x and y measured as linear dimensions.

                      so ive got a passing part but still scratching my head over the x,y deviations reported in the position dimension

                      003.png
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        try turning off perp. to centerline, that can affect TP readings.

                        Comment


                        • mckenzie
                          mckenzie commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Unfortunately that did not fix it this time.

                      • #15
                        The distance calculation seems to match your nominal values in the FCF, but where is the coordinate system origin? Compared to the DRF origin? Do you use Current alignment or DRF in the picture shown?
                        AndersI
                        SW support - Hexagon Metrology Nordic AB

                        Comment


                        • mckenzie
                          mckenzie commented
                          Editing a comment
                          both coordinates systems are the same. using DRF in the pictures

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