TP not coinciding with locations...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • TP not coinciding with locations...

    Okay. What I've got going on is my X deviation (at most) is at .0132" off nominal.

    My Y deviation is (also at most) .0083 off location.

    Nominal hole diameter is .4527", plus or minus .0196", with a measurement of .453".

    True position tolerance is .0196 at MMC in relation to A,B,&C., and .01 to itself.

    Everything I'm seeing tells me that while it's ugly, the hole pattern should fall into TP tolerance, because of MMC, but the CMM is telling me that the pattern, while well in tolerance to each other is .197 OOT in relation to the datums.

    What have I got going on?

    (yes. In the interest of brevity, I deleted many scan hits)


    Code:
    A2 =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:A1,LIST=YES
    ALIGNMENT/LEVEL,ZPLUS,PLN2
    ALIGNMENT/ROTATE,YPLUS,TO,LIN3,ABOUT,ZPLUS
    ALIGNMENT/TRANS,XAXIS,PNT1
    ALIGNMENT/TRANS,YAXIS,PNT1
    ALIGNMENT/TRANS,ZAXIS,PNT1
    ALIGNMENT/END
    MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,<-8.294,-5.899,0.25>
    SCN1 =BASICSCAN/CIRCLE,NUMBER OF HITS=23,SHOW HITS=YES,SHOWALLPARAMS=NO
    HIT/VECTOR,<-8.5211,-5.9123,0>,<0.9982963,0.0583474,0>,<-8.519,-5.899,-0.0003>,T=0.0029
    ENDSCAN
    CIR1 =FEAT/CIRCLE,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR,NO
    THEO/<-8.294,-5.899,0>,<0,0,1>,0.455
    ACTL/<-8.2926,-5.8858,-0.0001>,<0,0,1>,0.4545
    CONSTR/CIRCLE,BF,2D,SCN1,,
    OUTLIER_REMOVAL/OFF,3
    FILTER/OFF,UPR=0
    DIM LOC1= LOCATION OF CIRCLE CIR1 UNITS=IN ,$
    GRAPH=OFF TEXT=OFF MULT=10.00 OUTPUT=BOTH HALF ANGLE=NO
    AX NOMINAL MEAS +TOL -TOL DEV OUTTOL
    X -8.2940 -8.2926 0.0100 0.0100 0.0014 0.0000 -----#---
    Y -5.8990 -5.8858 0.0100 0.0100 0.0132 0.0032 -------->
    D 0.4527 0.4545 0.0196 0.0196 0.0017 0.0000 ----#----
    END OF DIMENSION LOC1
    A3 =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:A2,LIST=YES
    ALIGNMENT/LEVEL,ZPLUS,PLN2
    ALIGNMENT/TRANS,XAXIS,SCN1
    ALIGNMENT/TRANS,YAXIS,SCN1
    ALIGNMENT/TRANS,ZAXIS,SCN1
    ALIGNMENT/ROTATE,YPLUS,TO,LIN3,ABOUT,ZPLUS
    ALIGNMENT/END
    MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,<-0.0055,-0.0114,0.5>
    MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,<-1.5445,-0.0114,0.5>
    SCN2 =BASICSCAN/CIRCLE,NUMBER OF HITS=25,SHOW HITS=YES,SHOWALLPARAMS=NO
    HIT/VECTOR,<-1.7717,-0.0226,0>,<0.9987792,0.0493967,0>,<-1.7681,-0.011,-0.0004>,T=0.0042
    ENDSCAN
    CIR2 =FEAT/CIRCLE,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR,NO
    THEO/<-1.539,0,0>,<0,0,1>,0.455
    ACTL/<-1.5418,0.0002,0>,<0,0,1>,0.4535
    CONSTR/CIRCLE,BF,2D,SCN2,,
    OUTLIER_REMOVAL/OFF,3
    FILTER/OFF,UPR=0
    DIM LOC2= LOCATION OF CIRCLE CIR2 UNITS=IN ,$
    GRAPH=OFF TEXT=OFF MULT=10.00 OUTPUT=BOTH HALF ANGLE=NO
    AX NOMINAL MEAS +TOL -TOL DEV OUTTOL
    X -1.5390 -1.5418 0.0100 0.0100 -0.0028 0.0000 ---#-----
    Y 0.0000 0.0002 0.0100 0.0100 0.0002 0.0000 ----#----
    D 0.4527 0.4535 0.0196 0.0196 0.0008 0.0000 ----#----
    END OF DIMENSION LOC2
    MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,<-1.5445,-0.0114,0.5>
    MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,<0.496,-3.95,0.5>
    SCN3 =BASICSCAN/CIRCLE,NUMBER OF HITS=25,SHOW HITS=YES,SHOWALLPARAMS=NO
    HIT/VECTOR,<0.2688,-3.9375,0>,<0.9984977,-0.0547929,0>,<0.2655,-3.9458,0.0001>,T=-0.0028
    HIT/VECTOR,<0.2694,-3.9298,0>,<0.9960388,-0.0889198,0>,<0.2674,-3.9382,-0.0004>,T=-0.0012
    ENDSCAN
    CIR3 =FEAT/CIRCLE,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR,NO
    THEO/<0.496,-3.95,0>,<0,0,1>,0.455
    ACTL/<0.4924,-3.9583,0>,<0,0,1>,0.4537
    CONSTR/CIRCLE,BF,2D,SCN3,,
    OUTLIER_REMOVAL/OFF,3
    FILTER/OFF,UPR=0
    DIM LOC3= LOCATION OF CIRCLE CIR3 UNITS=IN ,$
    GRAPH=OFF TEXT=OFF MULT=10.00 OUTPUT=BOTH HALF ANGLE=NO
    AX NOMINAL MEAS +TOL -TOL DEV OUTTOL
    X 0.4960 0.4924 0.0100 0.0100 -0.0036 0.0000 --#------
    Y -3.9500 -3.9583 0.0100 0.0100 -0.0083 0.0000 #--------
    D 0.4527 0.4537 0.0196 0.0196 0.0010 0.0000 ----#----
    END OF DIMENSION LOC3
    MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,<0.496,-3.957,0.5>
    MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,<3.637,-1.102,0.5>
    SCN4 =BASICSCAN/CIRCLE,NUMBER OF HITS=25,SHOW HITS=YES,SHOWALLPARAMS=NO
    HIT/VECTOR,<3.4098,-1.0897,0>,<0.9985434,-0.0539547,0>,<3.4105,-1.0977,-0.0002>,T=0.0011
    HIT/VECTOR,<3.4103,-1.0828,0>,<0.9964229,-0.0845066,0>,<3.4092,-1.0907,0>,T=-0.0005
    ENDSCAN
    CIR4 =FEAT/CIRCLE,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR,NO
    THEO/<3.637,-1.102,0>,<0,0,1>,0.455
    ACTL/<3.6353,-1.1099,0.0001>,<0,0,1>,0.4534
    CONSTR/CIRCLE,BF,2D,SCN4,,
    OUTLIER_REMOVAL/OFF,3
    FILTER/OFF,UPR=0
    DIM LOC4= LOCATION OF CIRCLE CIR4 UNITS=IN ,$
    GRAPH=OFF TEXT=OFF MULT=10.00 OUTPUT=BOTH HALF ANGLE=NO
    AX NOMINAL MEAS +TOL -TOL DEV OUTTOL
    X 3.6370 3.6353 0.0100 0.0100 -0.0017 0.0000 ---#-----
    Y -1.1020 -1.1099 0.0100 0.0100 -0.0079 0.0000 #--------
    D 0.4527 0.4534 0.0196 0.0196 0.0007 0.0000 ----#----
    END OF DIMENSION LOC4
    MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,<3.637,-1.102,0.5>
    MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,<5.154,-3.957,0.5>
    SCN5 =BASICSCAN/CIRCLE,NUMBER OF HITS=25,SHOW HITS=YES,SHOWALLPARAMS=NO
    HIT/VECTOR,<4.9269,-3.9442,0>,<0.9984131,-0.0563137,0>,<4.9216,-3.9524,-0.0004>,T=-0.0048
    HIT/VECTOR,<4.9276,-3.935,0>,<0.9953103,-0.0967333,0>,<4.9218,-3.9432,0>,T=-0.005
    ENDSCAN
    CIR5 =FEAT/CIRCLE,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR,NO
    THEO/<5.154,-3.957,0>,<0,0,1>,0.455
    ACTL/<5.148,-3.9652,0>,<0,0,1>,0.4542
    CONSTR/CIRCLE,BF,2D,SCN5,,
    OUTLIER_REMOVAL/OFF,3
    FILTER/OFF,UPR=0
    DIM LOC5= LOCATION OF CIRCLE CIR5 UNITS=IN ,$
    GRAPH=OFF TEXT=OFF MULT=10.00 OUTPUT=BOTH HALF ANGLE=NO
    AX NOMINAL MEAS +TOL -TOL DEV OUTTOL
    X 5.1540 5.1480 0.0100 0.0100 -0.0060 0.0000 -#-------
    Y -3.9570 -3.9652 0.0100 0.0100 -0.0082 0.0000 #--------
    D 0.4527 0.4542 0.0196 0.0196 0.0015 0.0000 ----#----
    END OF DIMENSION LOC5
    DATDEF/FEATURE=PLN2,A
    DATDEF/FEATURE=PLN3,B
    DATDEF/FEATURE=LIN3,C
    FCFLOC1 =POSITION : CIR1,CIR2,CIR3,...
    FEATCTRLFRAME/SHOWNOMS=NO,SHOWPARAMS=YES,SHOWEXPANDED=YES
    CADGRAPH=OFF,REPORTGRAPH=OFF,TEXT=OFF,MULT=10.00,A RROWDENSITY=100,OUTPUT=BOTH,UNITS=IN
    COMPOSITE=YES,FIT TO DATUMS=YES,DEV PERPEN CENTERLINE=ON,OUTPUT ALIGNMENT=Datum Reference Frame
    CUSTOMIZED DRF=NO
    STANDARDTYPE=ASME_Y14_5
    SIZE TOLERANCES/5DIAMETER,0.4527,0.0196,0.0196
    PRIMARY DIMENSION/POSITION,DIAMETER,0.0197,MMC,A,B,C
    SECONDARY DIMENSION/,DIAMETER,0.0098,MMC,<dat>,<dat>,<d at>
    NOTE/FCFLOC1
    FEATURES/CIR1,CIR2,CIR3,CIR4,CIR5,,
    Last edited by Quality ish; 07-31-2019, 04:49 PM.

  • #2
    Are you using Legacy or Exactmeasure?
    Darroll
    2018R2

    Comment


    • #3
      My reports have little crosshairs that show the locations outside the acceptable area...

      Does that tell you?

      I wish I knew...

      Comment


      • #4
        In the tool bar, select the drop down that has the alignment and select dimensions. At the bottom of dimensions is Legacy. Either select or deselect to open Exactmeasure and then try to set up the FCF. Hopefully that helps.
        Darroll
        2018R2

        Comment


        • #5
          Okay. I think I found it.

          On the "Insert" drop down, I clicked on "Dimensions", and like you said, it gave me the option of "use Legacy dimensions". I clicked it. The only thing that happened was a check mark appeared next to it.

          No difference in the report, no window opened to adjust the FCF.

          Comment


          • #6
            Now select true position and do your dimensions.
            Darroll
            2018R2

            Comment


            • #7
              Okay. I think I've got it. Deleted the original TP, and redimensioned it with Legacy on this time, and the results are A LOT closer.

              Thanks.

              Comment


              • William Johnson
                William Johnson commented
                Editing a comment
                Legacy is dependent on your active alignment. Also it will not do proper fitting the way Exact does.

            • #8
              No worries! Glad I was able to help!
              Darroll
              2018R2

              Comment


              • #9
                Your last code tag should look like [ / CODE] w/o spaces if you want to show code. There is no reason why XACT won't work for you, there must be issues with parameters. Are your nominal X, Y, Z values correct in the advanced tab?

                Comment


                • #10
                  Just tossing on legacy your not treating the circles as a pattern anymore your inspecting them individually this is why you could see better numbers. Xactmeasure is treating them as a pattern and best fitting all the circles. MMC has nothing to do with your datums and you cant get MMB on non features of size "plane, Lines, points". Just doing the math with ur numbers your tol is .0296 with a position of .0312 so that circle would fail.

                  Comment


                  • Mike Ruff
                    Mike Ruff commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Actually, his positional tolerance is .0395. He's getting .0199" of bonus + .0196 positional tolerance = .0395"

                  • Quality ish
                    Quality ish commented
                    Editing a comment
                    In either respect, exact measure was telling me it was out by .290...

                • #11
                  Originally posted by JacobCheverie View Post
                  Your last code tag should look like [ / CODE] w/o spaces if you want to show code. There is no reason why XACT won't work for you, there must be issues with parameters. Are your nominal X, Y, Z values correct in the advanced tab?
                  "Advanced Tab"?

                  Where will I find this "Advanced Tab"?

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    Quality ish

                    XACT.jpg

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      FCF calls out 5 x TP .5 M to ABC, then as a composite: .25M

                      So the pattern has to be true to itself within .25mm (with a bonus of MMC. Trying to get these guys to drill a hole to the high side of tolerance though, is like pulling teeth)

                      Then the pattern has to be true to the datums within .5mm (with the MMC bonus). Thing is, four of the holes are dimensioned off the first hole, and they're checking well within the .25mm TP call out.

                      Given the relation to A (Z plane) B (constrains the X axis) and C, it should be pretty straight forward. Then I thought that because I was scanning a circle, just below the A plane, that may be contributing to the ABC deviation. I changed the circle scan to a cylinder, and created my circles using the cylinders and the plane A. I thought that would eliminate much of the deviation. It didn't.

                      If it's not in Legacy, it's saying the deviation is over 6mm, when my X is off by .26mm and my Y is off by .2mm. When it IS in Legacy, it shows the parts just falling into tolerance, with the MMC bonus. Unfortunately, it can't be in legacy, because I need to show the hole pattern is true to itself.

                      Finkel-Einhorn

                      AAAAArgh!!
                      Last edited by Quality ish; 07-31-2019, 08:20 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Originally posted by JacobCheverie View Post
                        On 2018 R2, that tab appears to say "nominal".

                        When I click on it, it shows that:

                        X axis nominal is -168.4016
                        Y axis nominal is -196.7792
                        Z axis nominal is 0
                        PR axis nominal is 259.0003
                        PA axis nominal is 229.4434
                        and DF nominal is 11.5

                        Aside from the DF (which I've astutely figured out is the feature diameter) being 11.5, I have no idea what these numbers represent.

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          Thought maybe the fact that both datums A and B were planes, it could be giving strange measurements...

                          I created a line, using plane 2 and 3 (which would put that line on the same planes as both A (Z) and the previous B (Y) datums.

                          No dice. still hinky.

                          Comment

                          Related Topics

                          Collapse

                          Working...
                          X