CMM Upgrade

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  • CMM Upgrade

    We are getting ready for an upgrade to an older Sheffield Bridge CMM. Replacing jog box, controller, Head and going with a scanning probe. I got asked a question is it worth money upgrading this CMM or just waiting and purchasing a new one later. There main concern was if we pour money into this CMM will it function as a new one. Which we are replacing everything but the frame, granite and axis.

    My question here is has anything changed over the years as far as the axis is concerned? Faster reading? more reliable? From my understanding there's nothing really different between CMM's as far as the machine reading the axis scales.

  • #2
    Chances are you can get something WAY faster and more accurate with a new(er) CMM.
    sigpic
    Originally posted by AndersI
    I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

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    • Jakep379
      Jakep379 commented
      Editing a comment
      Would it be more accurate tho? it would have the same Controller and analog probe as our newest CMM

  • #3
    You can't make an old beast move like a new gazelle. No matter what could be done to my old Validator, it is just too heavy to move faster than it did with the original drives (and they have been updated, long ago). Controller can't make it move faster than the drives, and drives have a limit on how much weight they can move. The new(er) Global we have moves 3 times as fast, accelerates 50 times as fast, and stops on a RCH at 6mm/second touch speed, the Validator, at 2.5mm/sec touch speed 'over-travels' 2mm or more.
    sigpic
    Originally posted by AndersI
    I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

    Comment


    • KIRBSTER269
      KIRBSTER269 commented
      Editing a comment
      Now....... When you say over-travel..... are you talking about the machine........or you?

    • louisd
      louisd commented
      Editing a comment
      The red ones are always better (RCH).
      Last edited by louisd; 07-11-2019, 04:51 PM.

  • #4
    I'd have to see numbers, and the utilization rates on the CMM before I committed to a definitive answer.
    If your utilization rates are low, and the upgrade was relatively cheap (let's say 1/4 the price of new) I'd probably stick with that path.
    If your utilization rates are high, and the need for better precision/accuracy is present, I'd sway towards buying new / newer.

    We just got a global S chrome, with a LSPH1 analog sensor, the and the thing has been ridiculously accurate.
    I'm seeing 0.00004" repeatability on small diameters with scanning. it measures >60 hits in the diameter in about a second, and repeats that well.

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    • #5
      I would look into a new one. I think those who have built rooms around their CMMs should be the only ones retrofitting, considering the cost to rebuild the room and/or rigging which ain't cheap.

      We have retrofitted machines and looking at the numbers it was a waste... IMNSHO.
      PcDmis 2015.1 SP10 CAD++
      Global 7-10-7 DC800S

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      • #6
        We've got an old (96?) B&S Excel 10-12-10 that was updated to 2018 R2 with all you say, except for the scan capability. While it's a decent unit, it definitely has some quirks. After the fact? I'm not sure they'd do it again. It's like putting an Alpine 6 CD changer in a Chevette. The Chevette was okay for what it was back in the day, but you're asking it to do far more than the engineers originally designed it to do.

        At the same token, We've got an old Sheffield Discovery D12 on the shop floor that we upgraded and put 2017 R2 in and the thing works great. Of course, essentially, we just changed the operating system. It's not really doing anything that it hadn't been designed to do when it was new.

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        • #7
          Originally posted by louisd View Post
          I'd have to see numbers, and the utilization rates on the CMM before I committed to a definitive answer.
          If your utilization rates are low, and the upgrade was relatively cheap (let's say 1/4 the price of new) I'd probably stick with that path.
          If your utilization rates are high, and the need for better precision/accuracy is present, I'd sway towards buying new / newer.

          We just got a global S chrome, with a LSPH1 analog sensor, the and the thing has been ridiculously accurate.
          I'm seeing 0.00004" repeatability on small diameters with scanning. it measures >60 hits in the diameter in about a second, and repeats that well.
          I agree with louisd. Few month ago ago we upgraded to RC1 controller, new jog box, new computer. Most of our parts have attribute check fixtures so CMM is only used for original PPAP and in some "special cases" (fit and function problems at Toyota or Honda where they request CMM report). Cost was 1/4 of the new machine, 1/2 of retrofitted one. We could never justify buying any of those.

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          • #8
            Originally posted by louisd View Post
            I'd have to see numbers, and the utilization rates on the CMM before I committed to a definitive answer.
            If your utilization rates are low, and the upgrade was relatively cheap (let's say 1/4 the price of new) I'd probably stick with that path.
            If your utilization rates are high, and the need for better precision/accuracy is present, I'd sway towards buying new / newer.

            We just got a global S chrome, with a LSPH1 analog sensor, the and the thing has been ridiculously accurate.
            I'm seeing 0.00004" repeatability on small diameters with scanning. it measures >60 hits in the diameter in about a second, and repeats that well.
            It's a Sheffield Discovery III 7.10.7. We hope it would perform similar to our Hexagon 7.10.7 Shop floor model. It's going to be used frequently it will be on a machining line running production. Cost is going to be roughly 30k for an upgrade vs over 100k for a new CMM. It's on the shop floor however it's still temp controlled. The machine itself is still being used with touch probes it's accurate for what it does. The main reason for upgrading is to utilize an analog probe we're standardizing all our cmms same probe/ styli set up the sheffield is the black sheep. were going with a HP-S-X1H.

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            • #9
              we retrofitted a 1987 Dea Scirocco last month. new rc controller, encoders on all axis. its still slower then our 2004 BS Global. One of our vendors has a new Global Chrome fully loaded they are able to run our cmm programs of the parts they make for us 3 times faster then we can on any of our cmms, newer is better. I would spend the 100K as the ROI will be seen in 6 months to a year if you optimize the usage.

              Comment


              • louisd
                louisd commented
                Editing a comment
                a typical sized s chrome is closer to 200k

            • #10
              Originally posted by Jakep379 View Post

              It's a Sheffield Discovery III 7.10.7. We hope it would perform similar to our Hexagon 7.10.7 Shop floor model. It's going to be used frequently it will be on a machining line running production. Cost is going to be roughly 30k for an upgrade vs over 100k for a new CMM. It's on the shop floor however it's still temp controlled. The machine itself is still being used with touch probes it's accurate for what it does. The main reason for upgrading is to utilize an analog probe we're standardizing all our cmms same probe/ styli set up the sheffield is the black sheep. were going with a HP-S-X1H.
              Given those numbers, and my personal experience upgrading our own Sheffield, I'd say this is the right move.

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