Frustrating issue with PCDMIS replacing values I've already set with random values

[UseAsIs]

I am having a problem with PC-DMIS swapping out values that I've keyed in all over my program with new values when I open up dialogs or run through my programs. It never seems to end. Every time I run a program or make any adjustments, I have to comb over the entire program to make sure all my nominals and tolerances are where I set them.

This happens with dimension nominals, target noms, theo noms, you name it. I try to make sure that any "learn" checkboxes are unmarked, and they rarely are because that's something I haven't used yet so I leave them alone.

But I can run a couple parts, or just open a program up again after a few days and PC-DMIS has graciously replaced all my nice, clean nominals with long, messy numbers.

For a hypothetical example, I could set a Dimension for "Circle_1" diameter to "12.500" and run it to get a result that shows my nominal as 12.500. But when I've run a few parts, or made any adjustments to just about anything elsewhere in the program, or open the program up a few days later, that same dimension's nominal that I set myself might now show up as "12.4997053"

Since the new number that replaces my typed-in number is usually very close, I don't usually notice it right away from reports or just reviewing my results after a program-run.

How can I lock these in so that I can avoid an embarrassing situation where I send a report to a customer with incorrect nominals, or have a part-escape that looks like it passes after these numbers have changed?

This is driving me absolutely crazy. I feel like it is reasonable to expect Hexagon/PCDMIS to offer a product that doesn't randomly re-write your program for you without asking.

[RIDER]

Add a +0 or a *1 after each nominal. ie 12.5000+0

[NinjaBadger]

This is a work around and you should not need to do it, but that said it will 'fix' your issue.

[UseAsIs]

lol really? wow. I feel like PCDMIS is one giant meta-workaround becoming a workaround of itself...

[Quality ish]

I'm having the same issue. tried this, and it automatically dropped the 0 off the end. I mean, I can look to the left, at the edit screen, and see exactly what my nominal and tolerance is, and on the report window, it's reading different numbers.

Edit: NinjaBadger's reply below was the solution. As all I was checking was perpendicularity between a plane and a cylinder, all I had to do was remove the alignment that I'd put in, and the issue was solved.

Now I just have to figure out why PC-Dmis didn't like my alignment...

[NinjaBadger]

Almost certainly an issue with your alignment(s).

Can you post some code from your program.

Probably leveling without locking all 6 dof.

[UseAsIs]

I'm locked in, I am absolutely positive of that. It's leveled to a plane, then translated z to that plane, then rotated to y+ from center bore to a midpoint out toward the outer radius, then x and y translated to the center bore. There is nowhere it can go, alignment-wise.

The triad is exactly where I need it on the graphic display.

But it's not just one program, it's every single time I use PCDMIS. I am inclined to use RIDER's workaround.

[CodeWarrior]

Lock 6 DOF's in every alignment and this won't happen

[UseAsIs]

I wish this was true. I apologize if I come across cocky, but it's a problem every time I'm on the machine. I am new to PCDMIS programming, but locking in an alignment is something I've understood for the better part of a decade.

[CodeWarrior]

Another thing to double-check is the F5 settings, like "Find nominals upon execution" or something similar to that. If you could post the code or program file someone could probably help troubleshoot.

[NinjaBadger]

UseAsIs It depends how you've done your alignments.

If you go...


Plane

Level

Line

Rotate

Circle

Origin

You might have issues


If you go...

Plane

Line

Circle

Level
Rotate
Origin

Then you'll be okay ( but possibly susceptible to cosine error)


Post your code and someone might be able to spot the issue.

[UseAsIs]

I will try some of these suggestions and if that fails, I will try to post some code. What types of code-blocks would be the most helpful? I feel like posting the whole program would be a pain to go through for anyone trying to help

[Don Ruggieri]

To start with, the entire front end alignment section(s). Do you have a manual and then a DCC alignment? Post them both

[Schrocknroll]

Also having the correct vectors and nominals for alignment features will help. I've worked with "learned" programs, that is programs that were written using a part instead of CAD, with funky nominals for alignment features and the programs behaved just as you described. Every time anything was adjusted, there was a trickle down effect in other features.

[Quality ish]

Also having the correct vectors and nominals for alignment features will help. I've worked with "learned" programs, that is programs that were written using a part instead of CAD, with funky nominals for alignment features and the programs behaved just as you described. Every time anything was adjusted, there was a trickle down effect in other features.

That's how I have to do all of my programming, as I don't have access to the CAD software (I'm not an "engineer", I'm just a lowly Inspector...) but I can make adjustments to the program as I'm going to put the correct numbers in (according to print). Most of the programs I write, I locate the part off stops that we have fixed to the CMM surface plate (using 123 blocks), and go straight to DCC mode. Occasionally, I'll have to put in a manual alignment prior to going to DCC, but I've had a great deal of success. I just wish they'd send me to school so I could figure out all that I don't know...

If you don't know what you don't know, how can you grow, y'know?

[A-machine-insp]

Baby steps there Kp...

[Quality ish]

Yep. No CAD. Apparently, I'm not worthy...

Besides: Yes, it's almost 2020, and 30 years ago, we thought we'd have flying cars by now. Instead, we have to literally tell our young people not to eat Tide pods. Go figure.

[ChairsWithWheels]

Me being part of the "young people", I find Tide Pods quite tasty.

[NinjaBadger]

That's how I have to do all of my programming, as I don't have access to the CAD software (I'm not an "engineer", I'm just a lowly Inspector...) but I can make adjustments to the program as I'm going to put the correct numbers in (according to print). Most of the programs I write, I locate the part off stops that we have fixed to the CMM surface plate (using 123 blocks), and go straight to DCC mode. Occasionally, I'll have to put in a manual alignment prior to going to DCC, but I've had a great deal of success. I just wish they'd send me to school so I could figure out all that I don't know...

If you don't know what you don't know, how can you grow, y'know?

That in in itself doesn't matter - you can write a perfect program without CAD, you just need to ensure ALL your theoretical values are correct.

Post your code, from start of program to after your DCC alignment and I imagine we'll be able to educate you somewhat from here.

on, place your code in code tags like this...


[C0DE]

Code here...

[/C0DE]

(but replace zero's with o's)

[UseAsIs]

Good formatting tip for the forum! I hadn't learned this yet

[NinjaBadger]

How about you use it and show us your code so we can help you?

[UseAsIs]

I actually did just use it on another post

I promise I will post code of this problem when I encounter it again, since I want to fix it. Currently, my nominals are cleaned up for this issue and haven't re-set to any weird raw numbers YET but I'm sure they will soon. When that happens, I will post the code before I make any adjustments.

[ttruong]

"But when I've run a few parts, or made any adjustments to just about anything elsewhere in the program" That why it's changing.

[UseAsIs]

So you don't think it's reasonable to expect PC-DMIS to leave the DIMENSIONED, TOLERANCED MEASUREMENTS the way the programmer sets them? Am I taking crazy-pills?

It shouldn't go from

https://www.pcdmisforum.com/filedata/fetch?filedataid=16868&type=medium

to

https://www.pcdmisforum.com/filedata/fetch?filedataid=16869&type=medium

without the operator changing it.

I used Calypso for several years and it never once changed something on my report. It had plenty of other issues, but it never did that to me.

I think it's a reasonable expectation to leave the reports the way they're set. You're being disingenuous to pretend I'm demanding some sort of "absolutely perfect" software when I'm clearly just wondering why my reports are being altered. I make tons of mistakes all day long, but I'm not the one throwing screwy nominals into my reports after I've set them a certain way.

[RIDER]

UseAsIs try looking at your Warnings that are turned on in Setup Options (F5). Has someone checked Yes to Do you want to update nominals of related dimensions? If so, they will change EVERY time you make code changes. Then just edit the warning or clear it out.

[Kp61dude!]

Both links are invalid file types... it's reasonable to expect things but like I stated before, don't expect that with this software. It's a tinkere's dream as in you must tinker like you've never tinkered before...eventually you'll get to a place of experience where you might not ever want to use any other software BUT only if you can tame the beast!

[Quality ish]

Post your code, from start of program to after your DCC alignment and I imagine we'll be able to educate you somewhat from here.

on, place your code in code tags like this...

You asked for it....

STARTUP    =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:USE_PART_SETUP,LIST=YES
            ALIGNMENT/END
            MODE/DCC
            FLY/ON
            FORMAT/TEXT,OPTIONS,ID,HEADINGS,SYMBOLS, ;NOM,TOL,MEAS,MAXMIN,DEV,DEVANG,OUTTOL
            MOVESPEED/ 120
            MANRETRACT/0.05
            PREHIT/0.05
            RETRACT/0.05
            SCANSPEED/40
            FORMAT/TEXT,OPTIONS, ,HEADINGS,SYMBOLS, ;NOM,MEAS,TOL,DEV,OUTTOL, ,
            LOADPROBE/SLOT2
            TIP/T1A0B0, SHANKIJK=0, 0, 1, ANGLE=0
            COMMENT/OPER,NO,FULL SCREEN=NO,AUTO-CONTINUE=NO,
            Locate part per print, 2'' from both stops.
            Remove 123 blocks.
            MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,<6.6583,8.1913,-37.5672>
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[Quality ish]

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            hit/vector,<5.6135,7.945,-43.0938>,<-0.0007706,0,0.9999997>,<5.6135,7.9453,-43.0938>,t=0
            hit/vector,<5.6727,7.945,-43.0938>,<-0.00011,0,1>,<5.6727,7.9452,-43.0938>,t=0
            hit/vector,<5.7319,7.945,-43.0938>,<0.0001416,0,1>,<5.7319,7.9449,-43.0938>,t=0
            hit/vector,<5.7909,7.945,-43.0937>,<0.0005244,0,0.9999999>,<5.7909,7.9448,-43.0937>,t=0
            hit/vector,<5.8498,7.945,-43.0938>,<-0.000464,0,0.9999999>,<5.8498,7.945,-43.0938>,t=0
            hit/vector,<5.9089,7.945,-43.0938>,<0.0015668,0,0.9999988>,<5.9089,7.9449,-43.0938>,t=0
            hit/vector,<5.9678,7.945,-43.0938>,<-0.001739,0,0.9999985>,<5.9678,7.945,-43.0938>,t=0
            hit/vector,<6.0267,7.945,-43.0937>,<0.0001755,0,1>,<6.0267,7.9449,-43.0937>,t=0
            hit/vector,<6.0858,7.945,-43.0938>,<-0.0013456,0,0.9999991>,<6.0858,7.9451,-43.0938>,t=0
            hit/vector,<6.145,7.945,-43.0938>,<0.0023726,0,0.9999972>,<6.145,7.9449,-43.0938>,t=0
            hit/vector,<6.2042,7.945,-43.0938>,<-0.0001491,0,1>,<6.2042,7.945,-43.0938>,t=0
            hit/vector,<6.2631,7.945,-43.0937>,<-0.0011157,0,0.9999994>,<6.2631,7.945,-43.0937>,t=0
            hit/vector,<6.3219,7.945,-43.0938>,<-0.0002504,0,1>,<6.3219,7.945,-43.0938>,t=0
            hit/vector,<6.3812,7.945,-43.0938>,<-0.0013454,0,0.9999991>,<6.3812,7.9453,-43.0938>,t=0
            hit/vector,<6.4403,7.945,-43.0937>,<0.0048141,0,0.9999884>,<6.4403,7.9449,-43.0937>,t=0
            hit/vector,<6.4991,7.945,-43.0937>,<-0.005002,0,0.9999875>,<6.4991,7.9451,-43.0937>,t=0
            hit/vector,<6.5581,7.945,-43.0938>,<0.0021572,0,0.9999977>,<6.5581,7.9449,-43.0938>,t=0
            hit/vector,<6.6173,7.945,-43.0938>,<0.0008878,0,0.9999996>,<6.6173,7.9449,-43.0938>,t=0
            hit/vector,<6.6763,7.945,-43.0938>,<-0.0025495,0,0.9999968>,<6.6763,7.945,-43.0938>,t=0
            hit/vector,<6.7354,7.945,-43.0937>,<0.0017678,0,0.9999984>,<6.7354,7.945,-43.0937>,t=0
            hit/vector,<6.7945,7.945,-43.0937>,<-0.0028691,0,0.9999959>,<6.7945,7.9449,-43.0937>,t=0
            hit/vector,<6.8534,7.945,-43.0936>,<0.0012423,0,0.9999992>,<6.8534,7.9449,-43.0936>,t=0
            hit/vector,<6.9125,7.945,-43.0936>,<-0.0039859,0,0.9999921>,<6.9125,7.9451,-43.0936>,t=0
            hit/vector,<6.9717,7.945,-43.0937>,<0.0059137,0,0.9999825>,<6.9717,7.9451,-43.0937>,t=0
            hit/vector,<7.0309,7.945,-43.0936>,<-0.0052399,0,0.9999863>,<7.0309,7.9448,-43.0936>,t=0
            hit/vector,<7.0899,7.945,-43.0936>,<0.0030226,0,0.9999954>,<7.0899,7.945,-43.0936>,t=0
            hit/vector,<7.149,7.945,-43.0937>,<0.0001174,0,1>,<7.149,7.945,-43.0937>,t=0
            hit/vector,<7.208,7.945,-43.0936>,<-0.0021169,0,0.9999978>,<7.208,7.9449,-43.0936>,t=0
            hit/vector,<7.267,7.945,-43.0936>,<0.0004944,0,0.9999999>,<7.267,7.945,-43.0936>,t=0
            hit/vector,<7.3208,7.945,-43.0934>,<0.0683547,0,0.9976611>,<7.3208,7.945,-43.0934>,t=0
            hit/vector,<7.365,7.945,-43.0936>,<0.0002941,0,1>,<7.365,7.945,-43.0936>,t=0
            endscan
pln1       =feat/plane,cartesian,triangle,no
            theo/<6.2914,8.3138,-43.0935>,<-0.0000447,-0.0006468,0.9999998>
            actl/<6.2928,8.3138,-43.0935>,<-0.0000325,-0.0006681,0.9999998>
            constr/plane,bf,scn1,scn2,scn3,,
            outlier_removal/off,3
            filter/off,wavelength=0
fcfflat1 =flatness : Pln1
            featctrlframe/showparams=yes,showexpanded=yes
            cadgraph=off,reportgraph=off,text=off,mult=10.00,arrowdensity=100,output=both,units=in
            per unit=no,
            standardtype=asme_y14_5
              dimension/flatness,0.001
              note/fcfflat1
            features/pln1,,
            move/point,normal,<4.3036,8.9087,-42.9425>
pln2       =feat/plane,cartesian,triangle
            theo/<4.461,8.4703,-43.286>,<-0.9999984,0.0017562,0.0003128>
            actl/<4.4592,8.4702,-43.286>,<-0.9999983,0.0000739,0.0018433>
            meas/plane,5
              hit/basic,normal,<4.4618,8.9774,-43.1693>,<-0.9999984,0.0017562,0.0003128>,<4.4594,8.9773,-43.1694>,use theo=yes
              hit/basic,normal,<4.4604,7.9869,-43.1693>,<-0.9999984,0.0017562,0.0003128>,<4.4594,7.9869,-43.1693>,use theo=yes
              hit/basic,normal,<4.4599,7.987,-43.3835>,<-0.9999984,0.0017562,0.0003128>,<4.4589,7.9869,-43.3835>,use theo=yes
              hit/basic,normal,<4.4611,8.5253,-43.3068>,<-0.9999984,0.0017562,0.0003128>,<4.4592,8.5252,-43.3068>,use theo=yes
              hit/basic,normal,<4.4619,8.8747,-43.4009>,<-0.9999984,0.0017562,0.0003128>,<4.459,8.8747,-43.401>,use theo=yes
            endmeas/
pln3       =feat/plane,cartesian,triangle
            theo/<5.6108,7.9919,-43.5247>,<-0.0000402,-0.0001218,1>
            actl/<5.6107,7.9919,-43.5242>,<-0.0000448,0.0000025,1>
            meas/plane,3
              hit/basic,normal,<4.3315,8.8738,-43.5246>,<-0.0000402,-0.0001218,1>,<4.3315,8.8737,-43.5243>,use theo=yes
              hit/basic,normal,<4.3316,7.551,-43.5248>,<-0.0000402,-0.0001218,1>,<4.3315,7.5511,-43.5243>,use theo=yes
              hit/basic,normal,<8.1694,7.551,-43.5246>,<-0.0000402,-0.0001218,1>,<8.1693,7.551,-43.5241>,use theo=yes
            endmeas/
pln4       =feat/plane,cartesian,triangle
            theo/<6.429,7.8468,-43.2848>,<0.0004489,-0.9999831,-0.0057905>
            actl/<6.4289,7.8481,-43.2848>,<0.0017645,-0.9999785,-0.0063155>
            meas/plane,5
              hit/basic,normal,<8.2083,7.8482,-43.3946>,<0.0004489,-0.9999831,-0.0057905>,<8.2082,7.852,-43.3946>,use theo=yes
              hit/basic,normal,<4.7226,7.8469,-43.3945>,<0.0004489,-0.9999831,-0.0057905>,<4.7225,7.846,-43.3945>,use theo=yes
              hit/basic,normal,<4.7226,7.8454,-43.1773>,<0.0004489,-0.9999831,-0.0057905>,<4.7225,7.8445,-43.1773>,use theo=yes
              hit/basic,normal,<6.2877,7.8463,-43.2844>,<0.0004489,-0.9999831,-0.0057905>,<6.2876,7.8475,-43.2844>,use theo=yes
              hit/basic,normal,<8.2039,7.8472,-43.1733>,<0.0004489,-0.9999831,-0.0057905>,<8.2038,7.8507,-43.1733>,use theo=yes
            endmeas/
pnt1       =feat/point,cartesian,no
            theo/<4.46,7.8448,-43.0939>,<0.0003027,-0.0057904,0.9999832>
            actl/<4.4595,7.8434,-43.0938>,<0.0018428,-0.0063122,0.9999784>
            constr/point,corner,pln1,pln2,pln4
a1         =alignment/start,recall:startup,list=yes
              alignment/level,zplus,pln1
              alignment/rotate,yminus,to,pln4,about,zplus
              alignment/trans,xaxis,pnt1
              alignment/trans,yaxis,pnt1
              alignment/trans,zaxis,pnt1
            alignment/end

I wrote up a quick program, something simple and typical. The reason for the three linear scans to start off with was a hypothetical flatness callout on Plane A (before I realized about the character limit on replies here...)

I try to incorporate my movements from the end of one feature/measurement to the start of the next, so that the program is more efficient, and eliminates some of the herky jerk back and forth movements that so many of our "engineers" like to have in the programs they write.

Thanks in advance.

[QS920]

Your vectors are messy, you might want to clean those up.

[Quality ish]

What exactly do you mean "my vectors are messy", and how would I go about "cleaning them up"?

I hit Insert. I choose scan. I choose line. I punch in coordinates for three points on the line I want to scan.

How do I scan from one point to another, change directions (to avoid features, perhaps), and go on, fom point to point?

Unless you're referring to the vectors of the points I took "mapping the part out". I simply moved the jogbox in X, Y, or Z, as the case may be, until the CMM registered the hit.

I know I'm so very far behind the knowledge of many here, but that's why I'm here...

[Schrocknroll]

What exactly do you mean "my vectors are messy", and how would I go about "cleaning them up"?

I hit Insert. I choose scan. I choose line. I punch in coordinates for three points on the line I want to scan.

How do I scan from one point to another, change directions (to avoid features, perhaps), and go on, fom point to point?

Unless you're referring to the vectors of the points I took "mapping the part out". I simply moved the jogbox in X, Y, or Z, as the case may be, until the CMM registered the hit.

I know I'm so very far behind the knowledge of many here, but that's why I'm here...

Assuming that your part is theoretically square the top plane should have a vector of 0,0,1. The front facing you should be 0,-1,0. The right should be 1,0,0 and so forth.
Then after the initial alignment, each feature you measure should have the theoretical coordinates and vectors set to print values, not just the dimension nominal. This way if you do any adjustments in the future it shouldn't affect you nominal in the dimensions.

[KIRBSTER269]

What QS920 and Schrocknroll are talking about, your mess one example

pln4       =feat/plane,cartesian,triangle
            theo/<6.429,[COLOR=#FF0000]7.8468[/COLOR],-43.2848>,<[COLOR=#FF0000]0.0004489,-0.9999831,-0.0057905[/COLOR]>
            actl/<6.4289,7.8481,-43.2848>,<0.0017645,-0.9999785,-0.0063155>
            meas/plane,5
              hit/basic,normal,<8.2083,[COLOR=#FF0000]7.8482[/COLOR],-43.3946>,<[COLOR=#FF0000]0.0004489,-0.9999831,-0.0057905[/COLOR]>,<8.2082,7.852,-43.3946>,use theo=yes
              hit/basic,normal,<4.7226,[COLOR=#FF0000]7.8469[/COLOR],-43.3945>,<[COLOR=#FF0000]0.0004489,-0.9999831,-0.0057905[/COLOR]>,<4.7225,7.846,-43.3945>,use theo=yes
              hit/basic,normal,<4.7226,[COLOR=#FF0000]7.8454[/COLOR],-43.1773>,<[COLOR=#FF0000]0.0004489,-0.9999831,-0.0057905[/COLOR]>,<4.7225,7.8445,-43.1773>,use theo=yes
              hit/basic,normal,<6.2877,[COLOR=#FF0000]7.8463[/COLOR],-43.2844>,<[COLOR=#FF0000]0.0004489,-0.9999831,-0.0057905[/COLOR]>,<6.2876,7.8475,-43.2844>,use theo=yes
              hit/basic,normal,<8.2039,[COLOR=#FF0000]7.8472[/COLOR],-43.1733>,<[COLOR=#FF0000]0.0004489,-0.9999831,-0.0057905[/COLOR]>,<8.2038,7.8507,-43.1733>,use theo=yes
            endmeas/

Cleaned up. I'm guessing the "Y" value because I don't know the dimension.

pln4       =feat/plane,cartesian,triangle
            theo/<6.429,[COLOR=#FF0000]7.845[/COLOR],-43.2848>,<[COLOR=#FF0000]0,-1,0[/COLOR]>
            actl/<6.4289,7.8481,-43.2848>,<0.0017645,-0.9999785,-0.0063155>
            meas/plane,5
              hit/basic,normal,<8.2083,[COLOR=#FF0000]7.845[/COLOR],-43.3946>,<[COLOR=#FF0000]0,-1,0[/COLOR]>,<8.2082,7.852,-43.3946>,use theo=yes
              hit/basic,normal,<4.7226,[COLOR=#FF0000]7.845[/COLOR],-43.3945>,<[COLOR=#FF0000]0,-1,0[/COLOR]>,<4.7225,7.846,-43.3945>,use theo=yes
              hit/basic,normal,<4.7226,[COLOR=#FF0000]7.845[/COLOR],-43.1773>,<[COLOR=#FF0000]0,-1,0[/COLOR]>,<4.7225,7.8445,-43.1773>,use theo=yes
              hit/basic,normal,<6.2877,[COLOR=#FF0000]7.845[/COLOR],-43.2844>,<[COLOR=#FF0000]0,-1,0[/COLOR]>,<6.2876,7.8475,-43.2844>,use theo=yes
              hit/basic,normal,<8.2039,[COLOR=#FF0000]7.845[/COLOR],-43.1733>,<[COLOR=#FF0000]0,-1,0[/COLOR]>,<8.2038,7.8507,-43.1733>,use theo=yes
            endmeas/

You want to tell DMIS that you have the perfect part, it in turn will tell you based off of the perfect part this is actually what you got. You tell it, I have a shitteee part, it in turn will tell you based off of these shitteee hits, you have an even shitteeer part, giving false information for all.

[QS920]

Thank you KIRBSTER269 and Schrocknroll explain it perfectly!

[NinjaBadger]

As others have said.

Even if you've got a flatness call on your datum plane, start with a simple features (i.e. a 3 point plane) in order to pick up the part.

You're launching straight into DCC as well there, which is fine if your part location / fixture is repeatable, but it still wouldn't hurt to have a rough alignment followed by a more thorough alignment.

Mode/Manual (or DCC IF you have a repeatable part location)

3 Point plane (Make sure theoretical values are correct)
2 Point line (Make sure theoretical values are correct)
1 Point (Make sure theoretical values are correct)

Level - Plane
Rotate Line
Origin xyz on plane line and point

Now do your scans (Make sure theoretical values are correct)
Construct plane (Make sure theoretical values are correct - they should be if the scan theo's were correct)
Measure other planes

Align...


Now you're good to go!