Rotate probe during move.

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  • Rotate probe during move.

    I saw a video of the new Global S and the probe is rotating during a move, similar to the 5-axis but it isn't. Is this a possible feature with a PH10M, maybe through settings somewhere? I don't think so, just double checking.

  • #2
    The command is MOVE/ALL... but I don't know which machines/probe heads are supported. A new probe head (when you've crashed the one you have ) may be ordered from Hexagon...

    Edit: Do note that the path traversed by the tip will vary with the %-speed on the jogbox (unless you have a continously rotatable head), as the probe rotation is constant speed while machine movement is affected by actual transport speed.
    Last edited by AndersI; 05-29-2019, 09:36 AM.
    AndersI
    SW support - Hexagon Metrology Nordic AB

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    • Quality ish
      Quality ish commented
      Editing a comment
      Can you give an example of the code I'd have to put in to make a position change as well as a tip change? Often, when I've just changed the tip, I'll have to change to a different workplane. It sounds like this could be a little bit of a time saver (and really cheese off the other inspectors who don't know about this yet...)

  • #3
    MOVE/ALL, not supported on certain controllers. When you look at the syntax, it's asking for an XYZ, and I forget if it's the XYZ of the current tip or the tip you're changing to.

    I've used this extensively, a couple things to keep in mind. Personally, I mainly use it when I'm indexing at A90 to another B position. I'd NEVER consider using it to change A rotation significantly.

    Proving the program out requires some work. Assuming you're in slow when you prove it out you have to keep in mind the rotation will not occur within the confines of the move you see while proving, as the probe head rotation is fixed speed; when you go fast it will rotate in a different location.

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    • AndersI
      AndersI commented
      Editing a comment
      Is there an echo (echo… echo…) in here? :-)

    • RandomJerk
      RandomJerk commented
      Editing a comment
      @andersl Think we were responding at the same time, I jut got distracted by coffee before I clicked post......

  • #4
    Originally posted by AndersI View Post
    The command is MOVE/ALL... but I don't know which machines/probe heads are supported. A new probe head (when you've crashed the one you have ) may be ordered from Hexagon...

    Edit: Do note that the path traversed by the tip will vary with the %-speed on the jogbox (unless you have a continously rotatable head), as the probe rotation is constant speed while machine movement is affected by actual transport speed.
    I felt like this needed to be repeated

    (In Memory of my Loving wife, "Ronda" who I lost March 7, 2016. I love you baby.)
    They say "Nobody's Perfect." I must be Nobody.

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    • #5
      The adventurous thing about MOVE/ALL is that you are making interesting moves besides the simple moves that RandomJerk mentions , that you have to set the speed appropriate to your wrist movement, because the wrist always rotates at the same speed, your X,Y,Z DO NOT
      Last edited by KIRBSTER269; 05-30-2019, 03:07 PM.
      (In Memory of my Loving wife, "Ronda" who I lost March 7, 2016. I love you baby.)
      They say "Nobody's Perfect." I must be Nobody.

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      • #6
        Think of it as REMOVE/ALL. Use with extreme caution.

        B&S CHAMELEON/PCDMIS CAD++ V2011

        There are no bugs, only "UNDOCUMENTED ENHANCEMENTS!"

        sigpic

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        • #7
          I once was told "moveall, is a cheap way to an expensive end"

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          • #8
            If you use them correctly they save a couple seconds per program and they look cool. If you use them incorrectly, you may need $XX,XXX worth of new parts for your CMM. Totally worth the risk IMO (haha, not really), I use them somewhat regularly though

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            • #9
              Now does anybody know whether the 5-axis rotational speed is governed by the jogbox speed, along with move speed? Or is it the same issue?

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              • Mike Ruff
                Mike Ruff commented
                Editing a comment
                The head rotates at the same speed regardless of any setting I'm aware of. The speed at which the CMM travels during this move will vary based off of MOVESPEED and the jogbox. Because of this, as you vary the speed, the path during the MOVE/ALL command will vary, so you need to make sure that it will clear everything at any speed. I mainly use it when rotating the B-angle (i.e. switching from A-90B90 to A-90B-90) while keeping the lowest portion of the head at least .300" above the part

              • JacobCheverie
                JacobCheverie commented
                Editing a comment
                I was asking about the Renishaw Revo or the PH20. I don't know if those are all the same as a standard probe using MOVE/ALL in terms of the difference in the two speeds.

            • #10
              One thing to remember with MOVE/ALL is you have to specify a specific point to move to like MOVE/POINT. Where it differs is you can't leave X, Y, or Z empty ,like you can with MOVE/POINT where it will not move in the blank axis, MOVE/ALL has to have all 3 axis coordinates covered. If you try to leave one blank, the Demon will insert a "0" which can be very VERY bad news.

              It is a really cool looking move but can get you into BIG trouble if you are not paying attention when programming it. I usually use it for B rotations and will only change A 15 degrees at most. I have the ability to do more with it because I have measured from the probe tip to the center of the wrist for my most commonly used probes and can compensate for the rotation but most of the time the time spent and the risk is not worth the time saved.

              The other thing to remember when doing the MOVE/ALL is the coordinates you tell it to go to are the coordinates of the tip AFTER the tip rotation is done. That is probably common knowledge but it took me a few minutes of messing with it originally to figure that one out.
              Remembering my beautiful wife Taz who's life was taken from me on 6-13-2020.

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              • #11
                Management wants me to use them even after all the potential risk involved. Management said USE THEM MOVES! Management bought me a spare head and probe body to go into the nice Lista cabinet they put next to my desk. Along with other spares I'll probably never use pucks, probe racks, probe tips, etc.

                Any other shop I've been at I would only use them just to prove they existed and quickly got rid of the evidence. All while sweating and looking around all paranoid with eyes as round as they get!

                As others mentioned I too exclusively use them to rotate the B axis and very rarely use them on the A axis. The few times I've crashed were in the process of learning about not rotating the heads A axis.

                Brush up your resume before starting tinkering with this feature, if you must.
                Last edited by Kp61dude!; 05-30-2019, 03:18 PM.
                PcDmis 2015.1 SP10 CAD++
                Global 7-10-7 DC800S

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                • #12
                  I waited implanting MOVE/ALL code into programs until the FDA certified it as a Wilcox enhancement that
                  was 'Safe and Effective' for all ages.....

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                  • #13
                    MOVEALL is pretty slick. I use it a lot.

                    I use it when I'm in wide open space (way above the part or off to the side) and I'm driving from front to back or side to side and need to rotate.

                    Here is an example of when I used it last week:

                    Code:
                    TIP/T1A90B180, SHANKIJK=0, -1, 0, ANGLE=-180
                                MOVE/CLEARPLANE
                    PNT14      =FEAT/CONTACT/VECTOR POINT/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN
                                THEO/<0,-2.8554,-1.375>,<0,-1,0>
                                ACTL/<0,-2.8554,-1.375>,<0,-1,0>
                                TARG/<0,-2.8554,-1.375>,<0,-1,0>
                                SNAP=NO
                                SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                                SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
                                MOVE/INCREMENT,<0,-2,0>
                                MOVE/INCREMENT,<0,0,8>
                                MOVE/ALL,<0,6,8>,TIP=T1A90B0,SHANKIJK=0,1,0,ANGLE=180
                    When the probe is above the part...it rotates while moving and when it gets to T1A90B0...the probe position will be at exactly (0,6,8) for T1A90B0.


                    I like this command because it rotates AND moves all in one line.
                    Last edited by measurestuff413; 06-04-2019, 09:09 AM.

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                    • #14
                      I do not advise using it.
                      sigpicSummer Time. Gotta Love it!

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                      • #15
                        From the help
                        When using a wrist device (PHS, CW43L, or CW43) this movement is synchronized such that the wrist's AB movement will start and end its motion at the same time that the machine starts and ends the X,Y, and Z movement.
                        So there are 3 devices that work as would be expected...
                        Another question:
                        If I ask the probe to move a very small distance while rotating (move/all), and there is another move command after the move/all (move/point) - Does the software wait for BOTH the move and the rotate to be completed before moving on the next move/point command?

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                        • Mike Ruff
                          Mike Ruff commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I don't have any of those 3 devices, but my setups will not start a MOVE/POINT after a MOVE/ALL until the MOVE/ALL is completely finished, so I would expect it to rotate and move the short distance before moving to the next MOVE/POINT. Also, the controllers have an impact on the way they work too- one of our CMMs pauses for almost a second longer than the other CMM after a MOVE/ALL

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