How Would You Measure This?

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  • How Would You Measure This?

    Hi everyone.

    I have a component with a drawing which is confusing me a lot.

    The component is a curved panel with holes in to accept grommets in a higher assembly.

    I can't attach the customer's drawing but I have made a mock up on MS Paint which is pretty much exactly how the real drawing is.

    There are no datums, no datums referenced in the true position or profiles. I am very confused.

    I am nowhere near the skill level of people on here so I would like some friendly advice.

    How are the true positions measured? Best fit?

    How are the profiles measured? How can it be form and location with no datums?

    The drawing is ASME Y14.5M.

    Thanks

    1234.jpg
    Last edited by Ben1989; 05-01-2019, 09:50 AM.

  • #2
    no datums means it is all best fit.

    So, you can align it anyway you want, then measure everything, then do a 3D best fit alignment of all features, then report them. That would match the print.
    sigpic
    Originally posted by AndersI
    I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

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    • #3
      Thanks Matthew.

      How would I best fit the outer holes for instance? Just a general best fit alignment? I'm trying to report true position but it's demanding a datum

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      • #4
        Also, there is no true position callout on the smaller holes which is strange

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        • #5
          Does the print reference CAD? I'm presuming this is a reduced dimension drawing. If so, that makes all the basics and nominal dimensions relative to whatever the CAD gives you.

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          • #6
            Is this some sort of prototype or short-run?
            sigpicIt's corona time!
            737 Xcel Cad++ v2009MR1....SE HABLA ESPAƑOL

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            • #7
              No this is a full production part that we need to First Article. It references the smaller holes on the drawing for exact positions on the CAD but the CAD has no notes or anything, merely just the 3D component.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Ben1989 View Post
                Thanks Matthew.

                How would I best fit the outer holes for instance? Just a general best fit alignment? I'm trying to report true position but it's demanding a datum
                If you use LEGACY reporting, then no datums needed, it uses the current alignment. As far as I know, there is also a toggle somewhere in Xact for you to tell it to use the current alignment instead of defining datums. And it isn't "just" the outer holes, it's EVERYTHING that must be included in the best fit alignment, holes (use 3 sample hits), surface, edges, all of it.
                sigpic
                Originally posted by AndersI
                I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Matthew D. Hoedeman View Post

                  If you use LEGACY reporting, then no datums needed, it uses the current alignment. As far as I know, there is also a toggle somewhere in Xact for you to tell it to use the current alignment instead of defining datums. And it isn't "just" the outer holes, it's EVERYTHING that must be included in the best fit alignment, holes (use 3 sample hits), surface, edges, all of it.
                  It is Xact. I've tried looking but nothing sticks out to remove the datum requirement.

                  So just throw every measured feature into the alignment and report from that to the drawing?

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                  • louisd
                    louisd commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Yes, toss everything in the bestfit alignment window. including the inner window and outer perimeter features.
                    No, don't output one TP dimension, output each feature as the TP for the holes is 24x and 14x respectively, output your surface profiles individually. All relative to current bestfit alignment.

                • #10
                  This may be a silly question, but with regards to the holes, they are on a curved surface. Do I report the TP to x,y,z or just x,y?

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                  • louisd
                    louisd commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I was just wondering why the part didn't get first-op inspected, then bent to the curve as a 2nd operation... The print would need to dictate that however. The Z location of the pattern is irrelevant (as measured circles), and will produce noise, unless you measure every hole as a cylinder and pierce-point the outer or inner face of the sheet.

                  • Ben1989
                    Ben1989 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Hi Louis,

                    The part is composite and is moulded to the curvature from layup and then holes and profile machined afterwards.

                  • louisd
                    louisd commented
                    Editing a comment
                    aah, that makes sense.

                • #11
                  Do asMatthew D. Hoedeman wrote you. each hole sample hits etc.. for holes X,Y

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