Bilateral Profile

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  • Bilateral Profile

    Print reads Profile of a Surface .015 D E C ie. +- .0075 to that surface profile. Pcdmis outut is MAX .0019 MIN -.0090 DEV .0109 OUTTOL .0015

    It should read OUTTOL .0030 as it would take a Profile callout of .018 to encompass this error.

    Comments?

    v4.1 Global Image 9128
    v2010 CAD ++ Global Image 121510

  • #2
    Originally posted by Addison Wood View Post
    Print reads Profile of a Surface .015 D E C ie. +- .0075 to that surface profile. Pcdmis outut is MAX .0019 MIN -.0090 DEV .0109 OUTTOL .0015

    It should read OUTTOL .0030 as it would take a Profile callout of .018 to encompass this error.

    Comments?

    v4.1 Global Image 9128
    Well, in reality, it IS out of tolerance 0.0015, but what you are looking for (expecting) is what the tolerance BAND should be to include all the points, assuming a +/- of equal values and getting the entire zone minus the current tolerance zone. I do not use V4-anything (yet), but what do you get if you do NOT report the MIN/MAX? Will it then show you the out-tol equal to the require band width-tolerance band width or does it still show you the ACTUAL out of tolerance amount?
    sigpic
    Originally posted by AndersI
    I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

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    • #3
      your tolerance band width is .015. any points that fall within that band are in tolerance. theorectically you can have points on both sides of the tolerance zone measuring +/-.0075. your output is correct imo.
      sigpic
      Southern Man don't need him around anyhow!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Addison Wood View Post
        Print reads Profile of a Surface .015 D E C ie. +- .0075 to that surface profile. Pcdmis outut is MAX .0019 MIN -.0090 DEV .0109 OUTTOL .0015

        It should read OUTTOL .0030 as it would take a Profile callout of .018 to encompass this error.

        Comments?

        v4.1 Global Image 9128
        Please don't take offense by my statement here, but, are you an engineer by chance? I ask this because there are two schools of thought(and this discussion can be found on the forum ad nauseum).

        One is your thought, which is "what amount of tolerance will it take to encompass the measured profile?", and the other is "what is the actual profile deviation from the nominal?.

        PC_DMIS reports out the second methodology. Keep in mind the reported devaition may be the form or it may be the location, depending on which is of greater value.
        sigpic

        James Mannes

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        • #5
          Originally posted by JamesMannes View Post
          Please don't take offense by my statement here, but, are you an engineer by chance? I ask this because there are two schools of thought(and this discussion can be found on the forum ad nauseum).

          One is your thought, which is "what amount of tolerance will it take to encompass the measured profile?", and the other is "what is the actual profile deviation from the nominal?.

          PC_DMIS reports out the second methodology. Keep in mind the reported devaition may be the form or it may be the location, depending on which is of greater value.
          Them's fightin' words, mister! DRAW!
          sigpic
          Originally posted by AndersI
          I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

          Comment


          • #6
            Mathew,

            Without the MIN/MAX it is still OUTTOL.0015
            v2010 CAD ++ Global Image 121510

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            • #7
              LOL guys.

              No it comes down to an FAI so when filling in the data you would report a PROFILE of .018 so OUTTOL .003
              v2010 CAD ++ Global Image 121510

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Matthew D. Hoedeman View Post
                Them's fightin' words, mister! DRAW!
                I know but I was trying to show him the two ways of looking at the situation. The engineer side wants to know what tolerance he should put on the blueprint. The QA/Layout Tech/Engineer wants to know what the actual deviation from nominal the measurement is. I fight no more. I went out with no scars on my face I'm keeping it that way.
                sigpic

                James Mannes

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Addison Wood View Post
                  LOL guys.

                  No it comes down to an FAI so when filling in the data you would report a PROFILE of .018 so OUTTOL .003
                  I do not know what an FAI is . Are you saying First Article Inspection? If so, I am not getting this across. The way of reporting this can be debated all day long. What it is going to come down to is, what does your customer expect? Either one or the other and neither is wrong, its' just the flavor that is different.
                  sigpic

                  James Mannes

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                  • #10
                    report it as .0015 O/T
                    sigpic
                    Southern Man don't need him around anyhow!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by george frick View Post
                      report it as .0015 O/T
                      If you report individual points instead of a scan or feature set, that is exactly what you would see, 0.0015" OOT. You also will see exactly which point it is and it will clearly show up on the graphics screen as to which point it is that it out, the label turns red. Easy to find, easy to locate, makes it easy to fix. BOTH methods of reporting are acceptable, points or scan lines, but it will depend on what your customer is expecting. In automotive sheet metal, they use GD&T (mostly) to dimension the parts and they use profile or a surface. However, they don't want patch scans of surfaces or linear scans, most generally they want either a 25mm grid (tight) or 50mm grid (loose) with a minimum of 3 points per surface (transition surfaces and radii usually excluded). Single point reporting is the way to go in this case.
                      sigpic
                      Originally posted by AndersI
                      I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        What I am saying is on the First Articale Inspection Report it would state:

                        S/B Profile of a surface .015 D E C is .018 not .0165
                        v2010 CAD ++ Global Image 121510

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Addison Wood View Post
                          What I am saying is on the First Articale Inspection Report it would state:

                          S/B Profile of a surface .015 D E C is .018 not .0165
                          your not getting it-sorry. the bilateral tolerance zone is a band .015 wide. .0075 each side. for some reason you want to double the deviation. this is incorrect reporting. i am going to defer this to matt- maybe he can explain it better.
                          sigpic
                          Southern Man don't need him around anyhow!

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                          • #14
                            You would be correct in that. I never do the profile as a whole. I report the T values of the individual points with a ± half the profile tolerance (if they are equal bilateral tolerances).
                            sigpicYou're just jealous the voices talk to me.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by george frick View Post
                              your not getting it-sorry. the bilateral tolerance zone is a band .015 wide. .0075 each side. for some reason you want to double the deviation. this is incorrect reporting. i am going to defer this to matt- maybe he can explain it better.
                              What he is looking for is a TP-TYPE of deviation/out of tolerance condition. As we all know, TP DEV reports the diameter of the required tolerance for the current measurement to be in tolerance (ie double the 2-d deviation). It then compares that to the stated tolerance. If the actual is bigger than the stated, it is out of tolerance. So, what he is looking for is the way Pcdmis DID report profile at one time. It DID SO! IT DID!

                              Anyway, that's the best I can describe it, he wants a dev/OOT value that will describe the MINIMUM bi-lateral tolerance required for the feature to be in tolerance.
                              sigpic
                              Originally posted by AndersI
                              I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

                              Comment

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