Auto Cone - Help Needed

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  • Auto Cone - Help Needed

    In the past I have been able to putz around and get a good autocone by trial and error. This time, I can't see down in the part where I am measuring the cone so now I need to know how to do it the "right" way. I tried the help file, it wasn't helpfull.

    Things you need to know: 3.7MR3 cad, cone's vector is 0,0,±1? and location is 0,0,?. I am not programming from cad.

    Questions:

    1) If the small end is at the bottom (z-) and the big end is at the top (z+), shouldn't the vector be 0,0,1?

    2) What does the value entered for z represent?

    3) What does spacer do?

    4) Am I correct that the depth is the distance between rows of hits?

    5) What does the value entered for diameter represent?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Goodluck View Post
    In the past I have been able to putz around and get a good autocone by trial and error. This time, I can't see down in the part where I am measuring the cone so now I need to know how to do it the "right" way. I tried the help file, it wasn't helpfull.

    Things you need to know: 3.7MR3 cad, cone's vector is 0,0,±1? and location is 0,0,?. I am not programming from cad.

    Questions:

    1) If the small end is at the bottom (z-) and the big end is at the top (z+), shouldn't the vector be 0,0,1?

    2) What does the value entered for z represent?

    3) What does spacer do?

    4) Am I correct that the depth is the distance between rows of hits?

    5) What does the value entered for diameter represent?
    1)yes
    2)the z value of the small end of the cone
    3) for sample hits (I didn't use them)
    4)depth is how deep from the surface (small end) to the first row of hits
    5)the diameter of the cone at the first row of hits

    As best I understand it, info worth what you paid for it. I had CAD so this is probably worthless. Why did I bother.

    3.7 mr3

    Good luck goodluck!

    TK
    Last edited by tking; 04-03-2007, 04:08 PM. Reason: This info was for an id cone, vector switches sign for od
    sigpicHave a homebrew

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    • #3
      Originally posted by tking View Post
      1)yes
      2)the z value of the small end of the cone
      3) for sample hits (I didn't use them)
      4)depth is how deep from the surface (small end) to the first row of hits
      5)the diameter of the cone at the first row of hits

      As best I understand it, info worth what you paid for it. I had CAD so this is probably worthless. Why did I bother.

      3.7 mr3

      Good luck goodluck!

      TK

      Thanks! That makes sense now.

      Now I just have to figure it out for an outside cone with the reverse vector.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Goodluck View Post
        Thanks! That makes sense now.

        Now I just have to figure it out for an outside cone with the reverse vector.
        ID probes from small to large, od the opposite, it's "path" safe. Makes sense when you mull it over.

        TK
        sigpicHave a homebrew

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        • #5
          Goodluck-
          Hi!
          1.) Here's another perspective... starting in 3.6 beta (but not 3.6 released), an AutoCone's vector always points out from the vertex. This is unlike an AutoCylinder where (vector = 0,0,1 & length/height = 10) is equivalent to (vector = 0,0,-1 & length/height = -10)
          For those who are familiar with the old B&S demoblock (and the Hexagon demoblock), the inside cone there has a vector of 0,0,1. The Hexagon block's stud has a vector of 0,0,-1. (Think about where the vertex is, and then think about where you want to measure)

          From the help: "For Circle, Cylinder, Sphere, and Cone Features, the IJK Normal Vec boxes define the feature centerline. A cone's vector is very important and always points out from the origin. The height and depth of a cone are always relative to this vector."

          2.) You can measure an AutoCone in two different ways: Top-Down or Bottom-Up. We'll use the simple internal demoblock example where the top of the block (and cone) is at Z = 0. You could define your cone from the top down, so your Z would be at 0, and the length would be -.95". Or, you could define it from the bottom up: Z= -.95, and the length = .95. Both would still have a vector of 0,0,1. So, what does Z represent? That's your defining location of your cone, and your length will be relative to that. That's also the location at which the diameter is calculated.

          3.) Right, spacer is used when you have sample hits.

          4.) The depth is applied closest to your Z value. So, if your defining your cone from the top down, the depth is applied from the top down. If you are defining your cone from the bottom up, your depth is applied from the bottom upwards.

          5.) I believe you’ll find that the measured diameter here isn’t at the first row of hits, but rather at your Z location. This is particularly useful when you have sample hits turned on.

          Hopefully this helps and doesn't make things more confusing!
          -Glenn

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          • #6
            Goodluck,
            This has not been mentioned yet, so. . . autocone depth and height work the same as they do for autocylinder. That is: depth is distance from Z dim to 1st row and height is distance from Z dim to last row. As mentioned earlier diameter is diameter of cone at Z dim. HTH
            sigpic"Hated by Many, Loved by Few" _ A.B. - Stone brewery

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            • #7
              I think I have got it now. I guess mostly what I wasn't sure about was the diameter. It seemed that changing the diameter also changed the location of the hits - obviously because the vectors for the hits are true 3d vectors as opposed to the 2d vectors I encounter with almost any other hit.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Glenn Russell View Post
                Goodluck-
                Hi!
                1.) Here's another perspective... starting in 3.6 beta (but not 3.6 released), an AutoCone's vector always points out from the vertex. This is unlike an AutoCylinder where (vector = 0,0,1 & length/height = 10) is equivalent to (vector = 0,0,-1 & length/height = -10)
                For those who are familiar with the old B&S demoblock (and the Hexagon demoblock), the inside cone there has a vector of 0,0,1. The Hexagon block's stud has a vector of 0,0,-1. (Think about where the vertex is, and then think about where you want to measure)

                From the help: "For Circle, Cylinder, Sphere, and Cone Features, the IJK Normal Vec boxes define the feature centerline. A cone's vector is very important and always points out from the origin. The height and depth of a cone are always relative to this vector."

                2.) You can measure an AutoCone in two different ways: Top-Down or Bottom-Up. We'll use the simple internal demoblock example where the top of the block (and cone) is at Z = 0. You could define your cone from the top down, so your Z would be at 0, and the length would be -.95". Or, you could define it from the bottom up: Z= -.95, and the length = .95. Both would still have a vector of 0,0,1. So, what does Z represent? That's your defining location of your cone, and your length will be relative to that. That's also the location at which the diameter is calculated.

                3.) Right, spacer is used when you have sample hits.

                4.) The depth is applied closest to your Z value. So, if your defining your cone from the top down, the depth is applied from the top down. If you are defining your cone from the bottom up, your depth is applied from the bottom upwards.

                5.) I believe you’ll find that the measured diameter here isn’t at the first row of hits, but rather at your Z location. This is particularly useful when you have sample hits turned on.

                Hopefully this helps and doesn't make things more confusing!
                -Glenn
                Glenn,
                Thank you for the explanation. I take it you are working for WILCOX/BNS?(I see that you are using 4.3 and you are from Rhode Island). You have posted before, but let me welcome you to the forum(if I haven't already).
                I am going to make a posting of your information to the "Code examples area, if you don't mind? Good information for the new user.
                sigpic

                James Mannes

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                • #9
                  Is there a sketch somewhere that explains this graphically?
                  Links to my utilities for PCDMIS

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Goodluck View Post
                    I think I have got it now. I guess mostly what I wasn't sure about was the diameter. It seemed that changing the diameter also changed the location of the hits - obviously because the vectors for the hits are true 3d vectors as opposed to the 2d vectors I encounter with almost any other hit.
                    GoodLuck-
                    Yes, changing the diameter will indeed move your hits... Think of the cone that you have programmed now... if you add 1 Inch to your diameter, that will make your cone, at it's defined Z, 1 Inch larger in diameter... Because the cone angle is still the same, it will also increase the diameter everywhere else by 1 inch... So, yes, changing your diameter will change the location of the hits. -Glenn

                    Originally posted by JamesMannes View Post
                    Glenn,
                    Thank you for the explanation. I take it you are working for WILCOX/BNS?(I see that you are using 4.3 and you are from Rhode Island). You have posted before, but let me welcome you to the forum(if I haven't already).
                    I am going to make a posting of your information to the "Code examples area, if you don't mind? Good information for the new user.
                    James-
                    Yep, I was afraid my post might give that away! Yes, I work for Wilcox in Rhode Island. I’ve monitored the forum for a month or two now, but this was one of the first times where I figured I could help out. Thanks for the welcome! Sure, feel free to re-post the above content. Thanks! -Glenn

                    Originally posted by cmmguy View Post
                    Is there a sketch somewhere that explains this graphically?
                    CmmGuy-
                    Unfortunately, there is nothing graphically that I know of. The problem is that there are so many cases… In-Out/ConeVector/SampleHits/Height/Depth/etc. etc. Anything that I draw would likely be a different case than what a user is working with. If the above text isn’t clear, another thing that may work for some users (if they have cad), is to simply single-click (>=V40) on the cad, verify that the green pathlines are correct, and see if the values in the dialog agree with the explanation above. Finally, if that doesn’t do it, and you’d like something graphical, let me know exactly what you’d like to see: HexBlock inside cone, HexBlock stud, something else? And I’ll see what I can do. -Glenn

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Glenn Russell View Post
                      ... is to simply single-click (>=V40) on the cad, ... -Glenn
                      V40! wow you guys like to think ahead don't you.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Goodluck View Post
                        V40! wow you guys like to think ahead don't you.
                        Yep! Actually, you can cad-select the cone in V37 as well, but it takes 6 or so tedious selections to do it. In >=4.0, the single-click technology makes auofeature selection much easier.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Goodluck View Post
                          V40! wow you guys like to think ahead don't you.
                          Originally posted by Glenn Russell View Post
                          Yep! Actually, you can cad-select the cone in V37 as well, but it takes 6 or so tedious selections to do it. In >=4.0, the single-click technology makes auofeature selection much easier.
                          I was just giving you crap about missing the "." in 4.0. Look, you did it again in "37"!

                          Seriously though, thanks for the explaination. I am pretty sure I have it down pat now. I created two (one internal, one external) just a while ago and it worked like a charm - almost. See my next post.

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                          • #14
                            So, this is my next post and the explaination for me saying "almost".

                            I have an external cone with a vector of 0,-1,0. For arguments sake, lets say that the y location of the cone is 0 (small end of the cone at y=0). You say I can define the cone in either direction. I want my first row of hits to be at y=-.05 and my second row of hits to be .1 from the first (y=-.15). I can't seem to achieve this with the depth and height settings.

                            What it appears I am observing is the following:

                            Depth sets the distance from the y value of the first row of hits. Height sets the distance from the y value of the second row of hits. This seems contradictory with what was stated above.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              OK, more information.

                              I found another part to expirement with. It is just a cone with a flat top. I put it oriented 0,-1,0. I made a plane on the flat top and set it to z=0. I created an autocone with a depth of .1 and a height of .5. Common sense would tell me that the first row of hits should be z=-.1 and the second row of hits at z=-.5. That is not the case. In reality, the hits are generated at z=-.0771 and z=-.4771. Anyone got any ideas where the other .0229 is going?

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