Clearance Plane problem SOLVED!

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  • Clearance Plane problem SOLVED!

    V3.7 MR3

    Interesting information for all y'all about clearance planes. This is something that I just figured out in the last week (gee, always learning something!):

    Where Pcdmis moves for a clearance plane will depend on WHERE in the program you have your cursor. Sounds pretty simple, eh? Well, get this (simply an example, but TRUE, hopefully you can understand my rambling):

    I have a program that is 100% done and able to run all freaking day long. However, one day, an idiot (ie engineer) wants an axis added to one of the dimensions in the report. So, I find the dimension in the middle of the program, it's where the program is using a 90,0 tip to check the hole on the back of a detail. I go to the dimension and add the axis. Well, the program both STARTS and ENDS with the 0,0 tip. And, like I said, this program will run all day long. However, after I add the axis to the dimension, I go to execute the program so I can get a new report on a new part with the added axis (you know, CRTL-Q). This is a 100% DCC program, no manual alignment being done due to the fixturing of the part. BUT, my cursor is in the program where the TIP called out is 90,0, EVEN THOUGH the probe is rotated to 0,0 becuase it just got done running a part and ended at 0,0. Well, the first thing in the program in a clearance plane move ABOVE the part, with the 0,0 tip called up (that's what the program starts with, eh?), BUT, for some **** reason, Pcdmis 'sees' where the cursor is at and ASSUMES that the probe is at 90,0 even though it is at 0,0 and I am executing the entire program from the beginning. So, instead of moving to a height above the detail equal to the clearance plane height WHEN THE TIP IS AT 0,0, it moves to a height above the part S IF THE PROBE WAS AT 90,0. well, if the top of the part is at Z 150mm and I am using a 175mm clearance plane, this gives me 25mm of clearance between the probe and the top of the part. HOWEVER, since I am using a PH9 with a 50mm cart-ext and a TP2 and a 30x3mm probe, when it moves to the clearance plane height AS IF the probe was at 90,0, this places the center of the head at some distance BELOW the detail because the over-all length (probe tip of center of head) is around 150mm.

    So, I think this might be what a lot of you 'see' as a bad clearance plane move and so have shied away from using them. Sure, this is a MAJOR screw-up, but no worse than any other Wilcox bug. SO, no matter what you are doing, make sure that you KNOW where you cursor is and it DOES matter, even if you are executing the entire program from the beginning.
    sigpic
    Originally posted by AndersI
    I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

  • #2
    So in other words, PC-DMIS "sees" the cursor whereever you left it, even if you are executing the whole program. Right?
    When in doubt, post code. A second set of eyes might see something you missed.
    sigpic

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    • #3
      I have to say that I have never noticed that problem. All of our programs start out manual though so it wouldn't necessarily pop up.

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      • #4
        That's interesting. . .

        I've ran into that same thing a couple of times and just never took the initiative to analyze the situation. That sounds like another "work-around" I'll have to keep in the back of my head (after 3-4 years of this crap I think I'm beginning to run out of room to store all that info though)...
        sigpic
        Xcel 15-20-10 - PFXcel 7-6-5 - Merlin 11-11-7 - Romer Absolute 7525SI
        PCDMIS 2012
        Windows Office XP

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        • #5
          Originally posted by rangerboat72 View Post
          That's interesting. . .

          I've ran into that same thing a couple of times and just never took the initiative to analyze the situation. That sounds like another "work-around" I'll have to keep in the back of my head (after 3-4 years of this crap I think I'm beginning to run out of room to store all that info though)...
          You just have to clear out a little room in your memory by erasing useless information - the kids' birthdates, your anniversary, where you left your keys, etc.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by John Kingston View Post
            So in other words, PC-DMIS "sees" the cursor whereever you left it, even if you are executing the whole program. Right?
            YEP!
            sigpic
            Originally posted by AndersI
            I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Goodluck View Post
              You just have to clear out a little room in your memory by erasing useless information - the kids' birthdates, your anniversary, where you left your keys, etc.
              *****!

              I wrote them all down and put them in a safe place after about a year of running the demon. Now that you've brought that up, I'd better start searching for my safe place becuase that information got erased accidentally in the transition form 3.7mr3 to 4.1...
              sigpic
              Xcel 15-20-10 - PFXcel 7-6-5 - Merlin 11-11-7 - Romer Absolute 7525SI
              PCDMIS 2012
              Windows Office XP

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Matthew D. Hoedeman View Post
                However, after I add the axis to the dimension, I go to execute the program so I can get a new report on a new part with the added axis (you know, CRTL-Q).
                You do know you can go into summary mode, highlight all of your dimensions and execute block then all of you dimensions will be updated and you'll have a new report with everything on it without measuring the part right? That is what I do when I add a dimension instead of re-running the program. It is quick and easy.

                I'm not getting the part about the rotated tip. Everytime I execute a program the first thing that takes place is a tip seat. If it is at 0,0 and my first tip is 0,0 it still seats, if it is at 90,0 and my first tip is 0,0 it rotates to 0,0. I'm not following you on the part where PCDMIS does not realize what the current rotation is. Help me out.
                <internet bumper sticker goes here>

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by craiger_ny View Post
                  You do know you can go into summary mode, highlight all of your dimensions and execute block then all of you dimensions will be updated and you'll have a new report with everything on it without measuring the part right? That is what I do when I add a dimension instead of re-running the program. It is quick and easy.

                  I'm not getting the part about the rotated tip. Everytime I execute a program the first thing that takes place is a tip seat. If it is at 0,0 and my first tip is 0,0 it still seats, if it is at 90,0 and my first tip is 0,0 it rotates to 0,0. I'm not following you on the part where PCDMIS does not realize what the current rotation is. Help me out.
                  OK, I know you can update the dimensions without executing (it was just an example for explaing WHY the probe was where it was at).

                  When I make a program, using clearance planes, and I then MARK-ALL NO MANUAL ALIGNMENT features, the probe angles above the DCC portion do NOT mark (see picture)



                  So, the FIRST marked command Pcdmis 'sees' is the clearance plane move, then the tip it wants to use (in this picture, 90,45). It will not un-seat and re-seat at 0,0 since it is not 'used'. However, it WILL move to the clearance plane height as if it were at 0,0 since that is the call-out in the program. However, if I place the cursor after the 90,45 tip, it will move as if the probe were at 90,45, not 0,0, for that first clearance plane move. And it will do this NO MATTER what angle it is at. If I have the probe at 90,0, lets say, and place the cursor at the SETUP viewset, it will still move as if it were at 0,0 for the clearance plane when doing a CTRL-Q (or EXECUTE).
                  Last edited by Matthew D. Hoedeman; 05-25-2007, 02:03 PM.
                  sigpic
                  Originally posted by AndersI
                  I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Matthew D. Hoedeman View Post
                    When I make a program, using clearance planes, and I then MARK-ALL NO MANUAL ALIGNMENT features, the probe angles above the DCC portion do NOT mark
                    Ahhhhhh I got ya. I have been doing programs all DCC with readpoints for so long I forgot about that deal with manual alignments and unmarking. I'm following you now. Matt get into readpoints, they were a Godsend. I don't know what I did without them to the point that I have completely forgotten manual alignments.

                    Thanks for the explination, you'd be amazed how dumb I am some times. And you only had to explain it once which is unusual for me.
                    <internet bumper sticker goes here>

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                    • #11
                      I have had this happen and never figured out why.

                      Matt, thanks again for some valuable info.
                      Perry
                      B&S Mistral
                      3.207 Beta on XP

                      Older'n dirt

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                      • #12
                        The same rule applies in other instances too, wherever the cursor is in the program is the point that PCDMIS believes it is up to, if you try a partial excecution the software will not reseat your probe, it will assume you have it in the correct position. The clearance plane remains relative to the probe that PCDMIS believes is current.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Matthew D. Hoedeman View Post
                          OK, I know you can update the dimensions without executing (it was just an example for explaing WHY the probe was where it was at).

                          When I make a program, using clearance planes, and I then MARK-ALL NO MANUAL ALIGNMENT features, the probe angles above the DCC portion do NOT mark (see picture)

                          [ATTACH]1205[/ATTACH]

                          So, the FIRST marked command Pcdmis 'sees' is the clearance plane move, then the tip it wants to use (in this picture, 90,45). It will not un-seat and re-seat at 0,0 since it is not 'used'. However, it WILL move to the clearance plane height as if it were at 0,0 since that is the call-out in the program. However, if I place the cursor after the 90,45 tip, it will move as if the probe were at 90,45, not 0,0, for that first clearance plane move. And it will do this NO MATTER what angle it is at. If I have the probe at 90,0, lets say, and place the cursor at the SETUP viewset, it will still move as if it were at 0,0 for the clearance plane when doing a CTRL-Q (or EXECUTE).
                          Hi Matt,
                          Just curious, I see in your program you have two probe angles just separated by the CLEARPLANE command (No features nor move points).
                          Maybe that confuses Pcdmis.
                          Normally what I do is inserting a move point right before the first CLEARPLANE.
                          My probe is moved above the set up (ie. higher on Z+).
                          That seems to solve the problem.

                          Good day!
                          sigpicIt's corona time!
                          737 Xcel Cad++ v2009MR1....SE HABLA ESPAƑOL

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                          • #14
                            There is ALWAYS a tip at the beginning of a program, you get one as soon as you do a LOADPROBE, Pcdmis HAS to have a tip. Well, LONG AGO, I got into the habit of makeing the first tip ALWAYS 0,0 (dates back to PRE-Pcdmis and progamming requirements) as well as always ending programs at 0,0. So, even when the first tip I actually need is NOT 0,0, that is still the first tip in the program. BUT, it is in the MANUAL portion of the program (there will ALWAYS be a manual portion of the program, no way to get around it as far as I know, but I could be wrong). The move point that you describe is the work-around to V3.5 missing the initial 'up' move of the clearance plane. This is a seperate issue and (potential) problem.
                            sigpic
                            Originally posted by AndersI
                            I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by craiger_ny View Post
                              Ahhhhhh I got ya. I have been doing programs all DCC with readpoints for so long I forgot about that deal with manual alignments and unmarking. I'm following you now. Matt get into readpoints, they were a Godsend. I don't know what I did without them to the point that I have completely forgotten manual alignments.

                              Thanks for the explination, you'd be amazed how dumb I am some times. And you only had to explain it once which is unusual for me.
                              The readpoints are a blessing. It took me a while to figure out how to do them in the demon but that's what I always used in our MMIV software before switching to the demon. Just stick the probe somewhere inside of a particular hole or slot and wiz bang boom poof, it's running DCC. No manual alignment whatsoever...
                              sigpic
                              Xcel 15-20-10 - PFXcel 7-6-5 - Merlin 11-11-7 - Romer Absolute 7525SI
                              PCDMIS 2012
                              Windows Office XP

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