PH10 M Making Noise

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  • PH10 M Making Noise

    B&S 7.10.7
    PH10M
    3.73
    Single artifact
    Clean area highly filtered air
    Less than .5 degree temperature controlled room

    My PH10M head is making noise a sort of clunk when it tries to seat in the 45x 180 position, but not every time.

    I ran the calibration program and got normal results .0012mm max deviation for all 7 tips . So I figured I would forge on ahead and run a piece of rough glass that I had to recheck because of editing in other areas of a new program. The tolerances on this piece are .001 mm flatness and .01 mm positional. The part was .004mm bigger than when I started trying to run it and showing the thickness out of tolerance.

    I then ran the calibration program several times and got very consistent results, less than .0002mm variation .0012 max SD. I still had thickness issues when I reran the part . I left the artifact where it was on the table and wrote a program that just went and measured the sphere 2 times for each probe position. Even though I had good calibration results I am showing up to .0232mm positional deviations in the Y axis, .0211mm in the X axis and .0063 in the Z axis.

    1. Am I correct in understanding that the Calibration process only takes the center of the ball and transfers that number to the machine coordinates along with the diameter of the probe tip

    2. I have a new head on order ..Go ahead jump aboard

    3. Has any one had this problem and how did you identify it

    4. I am considering making a tool with two larger Spheres and a block on it to run some sort of calibration program. Does any one else do that?
    Tolerance challenged ... Living in the world of unseen lines.

    This software isn't buggy its an infestation

  • #2
    Originally posted by Lee Johnson View Post
    B&S 7.10.7
    PH10M
    3.73
    Single artifact
    Clean area highly filtered air
    Less than .5 degree temperature controlled room

    My PH10M head is making noise a sort of clunk when it tries to seat in the 45x 180 position, but not every time.

    I ran the calibration program and got normal results .0012mm max deviation for all 7 tips . So I figured I would forge on ahead and run a piece of rough glass that I had to recheck because of editing in other areas of a new program. The tolerances on this piece are .001 mm flatness and .01 mm positional. The part was .004mm bigger than when I started trying to run it and showing the thickness out of tolerance.

    I then ran the calibration program several times and got very consistent results, less than .0002mm variation .0012 max SD. I still had thickness issues when I reran the part . I left the artifact where it was on the table and wrote a program that just went and measured the sphere 2 times for each probe position. Even though I had good calibration results I am showing up to .0232mm positional deviations in the Y axis, .0211mm in the X axis and .0063 in the Z axis.

    1. Am I correct in understanding that the Calibration process only takes the center of the ball and transfers that number to the machine coordinates along with the diameter of the probe tip

    2. I have a new head on order ..Go ahead jump aboard

    3. Has any one had this problem and how did you identify it

    4. I am considering making a tool with two larger Spheres and a block on it to run some sort of calibration program. Does any one else do that?

    Your machine is NOT capable of measuring to this tolerance range., I think your machine (7.10.7) is like a 0.0005" machine, which is 0.0127mm or 12 times the value you are trying to hold. Of course, I may be mistaken, but I don't think you can do what you are trying to do with that machine.
    sigpic
    Originally posted by AndersI
    I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

    Comment


    • #3
      Matt
      You are right about the specs. Overall volumetric is stated in that range. We have done extensive testing on this machine. and our repeatability is in the neighborhood of 1 micron. total volumetric is less than .006mm was .004mm. Some one chipped the ways in two places while I was out on sick leave last year, and made a mess of the center of the table. But I am not using that area most of the time. Whoever does the calibration is always impressed when they see the results this thing gives. with the 3x10 mm ball they normally get SD's in the .0006mm range

      I'm trying to convince them into buying a machine that can really give them the numbers they are looking for. Ziess or Hexagon both have a submicron machines.
      We have all the other controls to do that. I never see any temperature changes, really less than .5 degrees F and our air supply is .5 micron filtered from the hole in the wall. But you can not get submicron results using a articulating head. S0 I will have to work with star clusters then. yuck. 16 years of the automatic PH series heads. I get into some interesting places with it. Sometimes it takes a couple of wrist moves to get where I want to be. You couldn't get a star in there.
      Tolerance challenged ... Living in the world of unseen lines.

      This software isn't buggy its an infestation

      Comment


      • #4
        Nice to hear that you agree on the machine, you wouldn't even come close the guessing the number of people who think that just because the dimensions can be reported to 0.0001mm that the machine is actually reading that close.
        sigpic
        Originally posted by AndersI
        I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Matthew D. Hoedeman View Post
          Nice to hear that you agree on the machine, you wouldn't even come close the guessing the number of people who think that just because the dimensions can be reported to 0.0001mm that the machine is actually reading that close.

          I worked with a guy about 20 years ago. We had his dumba$$ believing if you took a palletjack & moved the parts under the table that the CMM would check them. He was my boss at the time....
          sigpic.....Its called golf because all the other 4 letter words were taken

          Comment


          • #6
            I put parts by my machine, in the morning the elves have checked them! They make me coffee and breakfast too. Usually only see them on the mornings after I went out. I think they take the day off if I didn't drink the night before.
            When in doubt, post code. A second set of eyes might see something you missed.
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #7
              Lee,

              DO NOT order a new head ! You can get an RBE unit for less than 1/3 of the price of new. They come certified and a warranty....
              Jim Jewell

              Comment


              • #8
                My ph10m started doing the same thing about 6 months ago(noise).Replaced it with a rebuilt one.No problems since.

                Comment


                • #9
                  On the older heads (PH9 and PH9A) this noise is caused by a very thin plate inside the head that is part of the locking system to hold the head up in place. Everytime you crash, if it un-seats the head, it can do damage to this thin plate, mostly warping it. Well, eventually, the warp is bad enough that you will start having problems with the noise and the head not wanting to seat. We used to have a guy local who could tear them apart a fix 95% or any problem inside the head. In fact, in 18 years, we only had to send 1 (yes, ONE!) head in for RBE and that one was because most of the other stuff had worn out to the point where he couldn't fix it, it was just worn out. But, onn several occasions, all he had to do was tear the e4har apart and flatten that thin plate and put it all back together. No, he didn't 'certify' the head when he was done, but WE did. Calibrated a s#!t load of angles, then made a program to check a sphere at all those angles, so we got the un-seat, re-seat, etc, and ran it a few times. Error within machine specs, good enough.
                  sigpic
                  Originally posted by AndersI
                  I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I had my PH10MQ on the global do the same thing. I got on the phone and ordered a RBE ($4,000) from renishaw. This was on a friday. On monday I fired up the global and my noise was gone?? About 10:00 AM the replacement came (red). So I talked to management and we waited 2 days to see if the noise came back. It did not. So we returned the RBE at a 20%restock charge, Yikes that hurt. That was in July of 06, still no noise (yet). So my advice is wait until monday and see if it continues.
                    Time for the Trolls to leave.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Bill
                      Not only do you have a great last name but you are holding one of those nice green fish That's a hog for your part of the country.

                      I have heard the noise a couple of times before and now it is doing it several times a day. The co has the cash they might as well spend it. Not sure if they went rebuilt or new. I havn't seen the recqusition. I hope it shows up in the morning.

                      Sounds like I am going to wind up with a new CMM in the near future. New tolerance Demands are going to be in the sub micron range. I think it will be a Leitz
                      Tolerance challenged ... Living in the world of unseen lines.

                      This software isn't buggy its an infestation

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        We could use a Leitz type of accuracy around here. We are a Job shop and have many many customers. I'm seeing more true position callouts of .001"
                        when we bought our Global cmm it passed a GR&R for .001". If I treat it nice it should be good for a long time, but as these things start to get older they start to lose there accuracy.
                        As far as hogs go I have about 30 or so lakes within 1/2 hr of me most have good to great fisihing. but I found one that I can get 5-10 bass in the 3-6lb size, with the ocasional bigger one. I prefer Ice fishing over boat fishing, becuase I don't like to sweat. After I get done working today I will be back out on the ice until dark. 44 deg today that suck! melting the ice. Well all good things must pass. I spent tons of hours catching some 11-12" crappies Probably 300-400 of them. Boy do they taste good in the winter.
                        Time for the Trolls to leave.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I live across the bigest lake in the state but work over an hour away. Work cuts into my fishing time.
                          A bimini top on my boat gives me a place to get some shade in the summer. Of course some guys don't like drawing me as a partner in a Tournament but they like the shade when it is hot out there. They also like the cover when it is raining.
                          The ice water Crappies taste great, no muddy taste in the winter.
                          Tolerance challenged ... Living in the world of unseen lines.

                          This software isn't buggy its an infestation

                          Comment

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