Clearance Planes vs. Clearance Cube

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  • Clearance Planes vs. Clearance Cube

    Good morning everyone,
    I have question and would like you guys opinion. Which h is better to use and why, Clearance Planes or Clearance Cube? I've always used Clearance Cube so I was curious as to what you guys think. Thank you.
    Last edited by Josh Carpenter; 09-15-2017, 08:57 AM.
    Darroll
    2018R2

  • #2
    I use Clearance Planes. Been using it for years, just never adopted Clearance Cube.

    Comment


    • Darrollh
      Darrollh commented
      Editing a comment
      Any particular reason?

    • bfire85
      bfire85 commented
      Editing a comment
      I just never have had the desire to use it. Honestly, when programming, it never comes to mind because I have a particular way I set things up, so I never even think about it. Maybe I'll look into it.

  • #3
    Sorry, I just noticed I misspelled Clearance in the header.
    Darroll
    2018R2

    Comment


    • #4
      Why do you prefer cube over plane?

      Comment


      • Darrollh
        Darrollh commented
        Editing a comment
        I'm like you, I have never used clearplane. Looking at it, it seems complicated. Clearance Cube seems so much easier to use.

    • #5
      Speed dictates usage.

      If you need more speed when programming, the 'short-cut' of clearance cube is fine. You CAN duplicate this using just clearance planes.
      If you need more speed when running, move points and/or avoidance moves is better.
      A 'hybrid' method will give you the best run-speed and best 'safety', using move points and clearance planes.

      I use a clearance plane move at the beginning of the program and at the end. 99% of the time everything in-between is move points or avoidance moves.
      sigpic
      Originally posted by AndersI
      I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

      Comment


      • #6
        Can you have multiple clearance planes in newer versions? We have 2011 MR1, and if you try to use more than one clearance plane in a program, the program crashes every single time. Drove me insane until I figured it out. I don't know if that is user error, but I can't for the life of me figure out why that would not be allowed.

        Comment


        • #7
          I have multiple clearance planes in one program. However, once you set a new clearance plane, it overrides the old one.

          Comment


          • Paperback Rocker
            Paperback Rocker commented
            Editing a comment
            It seems that when I have my problem, the second clearance plane turns the first one back on. What version are you using?

        • #8
          Originally posted by Paperback Rocker View Post
          Can you have multiple clearance planes in newer versions? We have 2011 MR1, and if you try to use more than one clearance plane in a program, the program crashes every single time. Drove me insane until I figured it out. I don't know if that is user error, but I can't for the life of me figure out why that would not be allowed.
          That MAY be a bug or a user error. I've used multiple clearance planes in V3.7 a few times, had no issue changing from X to Y to Z, but, I also always changed the workplane FIRST to the plane I needed the clearance plane in. Just switching from Z1000 to Z750 or Z-25 to Z250, never had any issues (and I do this quite often when doing RE on details that have to sit on a side).
          sigpic
          Originally posted by AndersI
          I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

          Comment


          • #9
            Yeah, I'm talking about clearly separate parts of a program, changed workplane, previous clearance plane turned off. Never works for me in 2011 MR1.

            Comment


            • DAN_M
              DAN_M commented
              Editing a comment
              @PaperbackRocker I have noticed this behavior too. Put a move point or move increment directly after your new clearance plane command and everything will work. This behavior has to do with the tip angle changing.

              Lets say you're at A0B0 and have a clearance plane set to 0.100" in the Z axis. Everything is working just fine. You then rotate to lets just say A90B180 & add a command to change your clearance plane to Y- 0.250. You then start adding features THAT YOU THINK will clear in the Y Axis but when you go to run the prg in real life, the software ignores the new Y clearance plane command and will still try to clear in the Z axis.

              I don't know why it does this. However, what I do to work around it, is something like this:

              Code:
               CLEARP/ZPLUS,0.125,ZPLUS,0,ON
                          MOVE/CLEARPLANE
              CIR2       =FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,OUT,LEAST_SQR
                          THEO/<0,0,0>,<0,0,1>,0.315,0
                          ACTL/<0,0,0>,<0,0,1>,0.315,0
                          TARG/<0,0,0>,<0,0,1>
                          START ANG=0,END ANG=360
                          ANGLE VEC=<1,0,0>
                          DIRECTION=CCW
                          SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=YES
                            VOID DETECTION=YES
                            REMEASURE=NO
                            SURFACE=THICKNESS_NONE,0
                            MEASURE MODE=NOMINALS
                            RMEAS=NONE,NONE,NONE
                            AUTO WRIST=NO
                            CIRCULAR MOVES=CIRCULAR
                            GRAPHICAL ANALYSIS=NO
                            FEATURE LOCATOR=NO,NO,""
                          SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
                          MOVE/INCREMENT,<0,0,4>
                          TIP/T1A90B180, SHANKIJK=0, -1, 0, ANGLE=180
                          WORKPLANE/YMINUS
                          CLEARP/YMINUS,-0.25,ZPLUS,0,ON
                          MOVE/INCREMENT,<0,-0.0001,0>
                          MOVE/CLEARPLANE
              CIR3       =FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,OUT,LEAST_SQR
                          THEO/<0,0,-0.4649>,<0,0,1>,0.252,0
                          ACTL/<0,0,-0.4649>,<0,0,1>,0.252,0
                          TARG/<0,0,-0.4649>,<0,0,1>
                          START ANG=0,END ANG=360
                          ANGLE VEC=<1,0,0>
                          DIRECTION=CCW
                          SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=YES
                            VOID DETECTION=YES
                            REMEASURE=NO
                            SURFACE=THICKNESS_NONE,0
                            MEASURE MODE=NOMINALS
                            RMEAS=NONE,NONE,NONE
                            AUTO WRIST=NO
                            CIRCULAR MOVES=CIRCULAR
                            GRAPHICAL ANALYSIS=NO
                            FEATURE LOCATOR=NO,NO,""
                          SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO

            • DAN_M
              DAN_M commented
              Editing a comment
              The "move/increment" directly after your new clearance plane command (for whatever reason) forces the software to read the new command and the program will clear in the appropriate axis after this. The move of 0.0001" adds 0 program time. Move/point also gets the software to read the new clearance plane command as well.

          • #10
            Reading these post makes Clearance Cube so much easier to use. The cube puts in the move points. If you need to add move points, you can. You can add clearance moves if you need to.
            Darroll
            2018R2

            Comment


            • #11
              Clearance Cube Pros:
              - Is incredibly useful for programs where you need extreme flexibility with what features to run and in what order, such as partial inspection for machining operations.
              - Is a huge time-saver for programming because all navigation is taken care of with a couple clicks, you only have to make features and dimensions.
              (note you can turn it on right after importing the CAD file, before any alignments, and it updates with the alignments)
              - It has both Before and After navigation moves!
              - Programmer has complete control over which face of the cube is used for both Before and After, and each or both can be disabled.

              Clearance Cube Cons:
              - Loss of precise control over where the probe and wrist actually travel, so it works brilliantly on a part with no fixture obstructions whatsoever but is very dangerous for parts with less clearance.
              - I have had problems using star tips with it, as the defaults use the stylus tip vector as which face of the cube is used.
              - Sometimes it will demand huge extra machine space by moving double the probe length away from the face of the cube, so a tip change doesn't swing the tip though the cube. Safe, but on small machines it shuts the whole thing down with "out of travel" error.
              - It will usually execute the Cube move before a Movepoint after the feature, hence the danger issues with tight fixture clearance.
              - Absolutely zero code appears in the program, so the programmer reading the Edit Window must know that the cube is active and the navigation motion is going to happen.


              ~~~~~~ !!! NOTE: Clearance Cube and Clearance Plane are completely incompatible and cannot co-exist in the same program !!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~


              Clearance Plane Pros:
              - Is huge time-saver because most of navigation is taken care of with a couple clicks
              (note: you can only do this after making an initial alignment)
              - Does offer great flexibility of run order for features that share the same side of the part.
              - Can add extra Move/Clearplane commands anywhere
              - Shows lines of code in program where each move will happen
              - Much more compatible with Movepoints than the Cube is.
              - If you change the alignment, the plane stays in the same physical location.

              Clearance Plane Cons:
              - Before feature only
              - Switching between different sides of the part can be dangerous, especially when mixing in Movepoints
              - Before only! Ugh!
              - If you change the alignment, the plane stays in the same physical location.
              - Major issue with tip changes: if your stylus is pointing sideways (say, A90B90), and your Clearance Plane is at 1" above the part, the Clearplane move that's automatically inserted before a TIP/ change command only moves the stylus center to 1" above the part... so if you rotate to A0B0 it's pretty likely that you will smack the stylus into the part/fixture/granite. This ruins the 'fully automatic navigation' because now you MUST manually add a Movepoint to not break the probe.

              ~~~~

              Check out Auto Insert Movepoints if you want to get really trick.
              Last edited by Josh Carpenter; 09-15-2017, 09:33 AM. Reason: forgot something important lol

              Comment


              • #12
                Originally posted by Darrollh View Post
                Reading these post makes Clearance Cube so much easier to use. The cube puts in the move points. If you need to add move points, you can. You can add clearance moves if you need to.
                I'm sorry but this is incorrect. It adds no code, it just sends extra navigation commands to the machine's controller for each feature.

                Comment


                • #13
                  Originally posted by Josh Carpenter View Post
                  Clearance Cube Pros:
                  - Is incredibly useful for programs where you need extreme flexibility with what features to run and in what order, such as partial inspection for machining operations.
                  - Is a huge time-saver for programming because all navigation is taken care of with a couple clicks, you only have to make features and dimensions.
                  (note you can turn it on right after importing the CAD file, before any alignments, and it updates with the alignments)
                  - It has both Before and After navigation moves!
                  - Programmer has complete control over which face of the cube is used for both Before and After, and each or both can be disabled.

                  Clearance Cube Cons:
                  - Loss of precise control over where the probe and wrist actually travel, so it works brilliantly on a part with no fixture obstructions whatsoever but is very dangerous for parts with less clearance.
                  - I have had problems using star tips with it, as the defaults use the stylus tip vector as which face of the cube is used.
                  - Sometimes it will demand huge extra machine space by moving double the probe length away from the face of the cube, so a tip change doesn't swing the tip though the cube. Safe, but on small machines it shuts the whole thing down with "out of travel" error.
                  - It will usually execute the Cube move before a Movepoint after the feature, hence the danger issues with tight fixture clearance.
                  - Absolutely zero code appears in the program, so the programmer reading the Edit Window must know that the cube is active and the navigation motion is going to happen.


                  ~~~~~~ !!! NOTE: Clearance Cube and Clearance Plane are completely incompatible and cannot co-exist in the same program !!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~


                  Clearance Plane Pros:
                  - Is huge time-saver because most of navigation is taken care of with a couple clicks
                  (note: you can only do this after making an initial alignment)
                  - Does offer great flexibility of run order for features that share the same side of the part.
                  - Can add extra Move/Clearplane commands anywhere
                  - Shows lines of code in program where each move will happen
                  - Much more compatible with Movepoints than the Cube is.
                  - If you change the alignment, the plane stays in the same physical location.

                  Clearance Plane Cons:
                  - Before feature only
                  - Switching between different sides of the part can be dangerous, especially when mixing in Movepoints
                  - Before only! Ugh!
                  - If you change the alignment, the plane stays in the same physical location.
                  - Major issue with tip changes: if your stylus is pointing sideways (say, A90B90), and your Clearance Plane is at 1" above the part, the Clearplane move that's automatically inserted before a TIP/ change command only moves the stylus center to 1" above the part... so if you rotate to A0B0 it's pretty likely that you will smack the stylus into the part/fixture/granite. This ruins the 'fully automatic navigation' because now you MUST manually add a Movepoint to not break the probe.

                  ~~~~

                  Check out Auto Insert Movepoints if you want to get really trick.
                  But.... but.... but..... you left out AVOIDANCE moves and how they can be used a 'mini-micro' clearance planes, just where you need them.
                  sigpic
                  Originally posted by AndersI
                  I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

                  Comment


                  • #14
                    Originally posted by Matthew D. Hoedeman View Post

                    But.... but.... but..... you left out AVOIDANCE moves and how they can be used a 'mini-micro' clearance planes, just where you need them.
                    I love Auto Feature Avoidance Moves, and use them all the time (whether they are necessary or not) in conjunction with the Clearance Plane/Cube methodologies and especially on Movepoint-only programs.

                    They are really just an "assist" or "supplemental" navigation move that helps your main navigation plan because by themselves they aren't flexible enough to navigate around fixtures and part geometries.

                    I've done lots of parts that were simple flat things with no fixture, and all features are accessed with a single tip angle - for these parts you can get away with Avoidance Moves as the only navigation. But start beeping a freaky lumpy thing with 27 different tip angles and you quickly integrate some additional navigation methods.

                    Comment


                    • #15
                      Originally posted by Josh Carpenter View Post

                      I love Auto Feature Avoidance Moves, and use them all the time (whether they are necessary or not) in conjunction with the Clearance Plane/Cube methodologies and especially on Movepoint-only programs.

                      They are really just an "assist" or "supplemental" navigation move that helps your main navigation plan because by themselves they aren't flexible enough to navigate around fixtures and part geometries.

                      I've done lots of parts that were simple flat things with no fixture, and all features are accessed with a single tip angle - for these parts you can get away with Avoidance Moves as the only navigation. But start beeping a freaky lumpy thing with 27 different tip angles and you quickly integrate some additional navigation methods.
                      Convoluted sheet metal, on fixtures, with clamps and swing gates and data collection bushings..... tell me something I don't know!

                      Start & end program with the A0B0 tip (there is always something that can be measured with that tip), first move is a clearance plane move, then avoidance/movepoints as needed. I never (well, almost never) use the surface sample hit for edge points anymore, they only really work correctly if the surface is planar where you are taking the edge point, so, vector point on the surface, close to the edge, edge point with BOTH right there to go 'over & down & touch & back up' to go to the next vector point. On 'flat surfaces' with a clamp arm over the top, 'after' on the point 'behind' then 'before' on the point 'in front'. At the end, clearance plane move (while at A0B0) then movepoint to the 'right rear' of the fixture.
                      sigpic
                      Originally posted by AndersI
                      I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

                      Comment

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