Clarification with this drawing

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  • Clarification with this drawing

    maybe should be in the off topic section but meh, fed up with this project.
    12358942.PNG

    Hope you can see the details in the pic. I have been going back and forth for some clarification on the datum structure for this part. I have no idea what the HS, H and S lettering means and they don't seem to want to tell me if anyone has any ideas that would be great.

    It is a pretty simple datum structure on the surface and I would have thought pretty simple to clarify, there is a hole for the A,B & C datum, Another hole for the A datum, and then there was what I though was two points for the C datum. I contacted the customer for this part to ask for some point targets for these two points so I could get them right, only to be told that datum C is actually surface/plane across the two points. How am I to get that from the drawing, and then the question comes of how large do I make the surface and where n the part do I locate it. Not only that but the two lines/ribs you can see on the picture are actually machined surfaces, why would you use those when there is a perfectly smooth extruded surface right next to it.

    I do not get how some design engineers can take something that is so simple and would take 2 minutes, and turn it into complete rubbish.

    Anyway, steam vented and it is home time.

    Edit: just thought maybe the H and S stand for holes and surface. Not sure it helps me at all.

  • #2
    A being the primary is a "hole" Nice. Depending on the customer... What is their level of GD&T usage ? New project ? Old ? Proto ? What does Feature control frame say ? Is this a PPAP project ? That may change my approach at this time..I am going to be absolutely crucified here but o well.....Sometime when the GD&T is that fubar and there is no help coming, I am checking part how "I" think we can make a good part and verify our process at the same time.Their incoming inspection is the dept that will get stuck with the same garbage as you and they will need to check the part as well or it may go straight to assembly. Check the part, document how and why you did it that way and ask for forgiveness later....The print "says" blah blah blah..... Sometime the print is a drunken sailor on shore leave and needs help getting a cab back home...
    Last edited by Schlag; 05-31-2017, 12:03 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by bigtallanddopey View Post
      maybe should be in the off topic section but meh, fed up with this project.
      12358942.PNG

      Hope you can see the details in the pic. I have been going back and forth for some clarification on the datum structure for this part. I have no idea what the HS, H and S lettering means and they don't seem to want to tell me if anyone has any ideas that would be great.

      It is a pretty simple datum structure on the surface and I would have thought pretty simple to clarify, there is a hole for the A,B & C datum, Another hole for the A datum, and then there was what I though was two points for the C datum. I contacted the customer for this part to ask for some point targets for these two points so I could get them right, only to be told that datum C is actually surface/plane across the two points. How am I to get that from the drawing, and then the question comes of how large do I make the surface and where n the part do I locate it. Not only that but the two lines/ribs you can see on the picture are actually machined surfaces, why would you use those when there is a perfectly smooth extruded surface right next to it.

      I do not get how some design engineers can take something that is so simple and would take 2 minutes, and turn it into complete rubbish.

      Anyway, steam vented and it is home time.

      Edit: just thought maybe the H and S stand for holes and surface. Not sure it helps me at all.
      Thats just ridiculous. It is up to the customer to specify their requirements, not the other way around. Depending on if your company has a quality management system like ISO 9001 or AS9100, you interpreting this on your own would be a pretty big procedural violation.

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      • #4
        We all see stuff like this and end up in the same situation. Most times if I cant get a straight answer from the engineer or customer I do what Shlag said. I cant waits days/weeks for the clarification and I know once the customer goes to measure it they will call me and ask how I did it. I document all my findings/observations and I haven't got F'd by it yet.
        Good luck BigTallandDopey

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Schlag View Post
          A being the primary is a "hole" Nice. Depending on the customer... What is their level of GD&T usage ? New project ? Old ? Proto ? What does Feature control frame say ? Is this a PPAP project ? That may change my approach at this time..I am going to be absolutely crucified here but o well.....Sometime when the GD&T is that fubar and there is no help coming, I am checking part how "I" think we can make a good part and verify our process at the same time.Their incoming inspection is the dept that will get stuck with the same garbage as you and they will need to check the part as well or it may go straight to assembly. Check the part, document how and why you did it that way and ask for forgiveness later....The print "says" blah blah blah..... Sometime the print is a drunken sailor on shore leave and needs help getting a cab back home...
          Don't get me started on the FCF's. they are located in a table at the top of the drawing. I have no idea to which features/surfaces they refer to. The only one I am going to use is the TP callout for the holes and apply it to every hole.

          41536418673.PNG

          I'm not even sure if all those modifiers are legal because of the way the datum's are constructed, but we shall see when I "Finish" the program.

          At the moment this is a new project and it will be the first off parts I am measuring so for the most part they will get T values and X,Y,Z co-ordinates for the holes. My main problem is I have no idea how this part is made, or how it fits to the car.

          I would be of a mind to just reject it until the drawing is sorted but the director of our company has asked me to do it as a "favor" to another site we own, cannot really refuse.

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          • #6
            If [C] is a plane there can't be an (M) on it - are you sure [C] is not a width feature? Constructed from two opposing planes (or lines).
            AndersI
            SW support - Hexagon Metrology Nordic AB

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            • #7
              Originally posted by AndersI View Post
              If [C] is a plane there can't be an (M) on it - are you sure [C] is not a width feature? Constructed from two opposing planes (or lines).
              I hope not but anything is possible sometimes, theres no apposing planes on the part in the area indicated on the drawing and if it was what was required I don't think the alignment would control all 6dof.

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              • #8
                Pic is hard to see, but those bubbles don't look like datum targets.
                I've seen dimensioning where locations (dimensions) are listed in a table on the drawing. Just wonder if this is one of those.
                sigpicIt's corona time!
                737 Xcel Cad++ v2009MR1....SE HABLA ESPAƑOL

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                • bigtallanddopey
                  bigtallanddopey commented
                  Editing a comment
                  We always use those here on our drawings, just a small bubble with A1 in it or something and then a table with the XYZ co-ordinates on it. If that is what was meant on this drawing then the table with the additional information has been forgotten.

              • #9
                Originally posted by bigtallanddopey View Post
                I contacted the customer for this part to ask for some point targets for these two points so I could get them right, only to be told that datum C is actually surface/plane across the two points. How am I to get that from the drawing, and then the question comes of how large do I make the surface and where n the part do I locate it. Not only that but the two lines/ribs you can see on the picture are actually machined surfaces, why would you use those when there is a perfectly smooth extruded surface right next to it..
                Communication skills.

                You failed to communicate to the customer the fact that their print fails to communicate to you the datum scheme.

                Call them back and make more effort to communicate this fact.

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