3.7 MR2 problems! ?????

[Octopussjump]

Hello,
This is my first post on here. My Name is John, and I work at DP Tool & Machine in Avon, NY. Sorry for the length of this post, but I’m really stumped on this.

We are currently running 2 CMM's with PC-DMIS PRO 3.7 MR2 - a 1 - 2 year old Brown and Sharpe One, and a Sheffield Endeavor Series. 90% of the time we are running a program based off a variables list on the B&S and for the most part, it's total amount of glitches and restarts is pretty acceptable. Keep in mind its being run almost constantly over 3 shifts a day.

However on the Sheffield we experience almost daily shut downs with a number of different error messages. Sometimes this will happen repeatedly in the span of a few hours - other times things go well for the better part of a week.

I've had a problem where the software automatically triggers a hit upon start up and shows rapid movement in all 3 axis - only the controller is in "joy" and the probe head has not moved at all! It will then refuse to take any other hits.

If you restart the PC and turn the CMM off, and then back on, and re-zero everything, sometimes the software loses track of which tip it has, and never bothers to ask you either. So again, if you aren't careful, you will start checking your part with the wrong tip, only to smash up because of an extra extension or something like that.

We've had a few instances of the program skipping over clear planes that are marked active. I've also had the machine completely lose it's zero and try to move over 40 inches - like it's skipped the grid or something. Often times the machine will end up missing a feature by 1 - 60 mm because it has lost track of where it is. If you restart the CMM and Software, usually it will be fine, but on occasion this takes more than 1 try before it will work.

Once the machine even moved by its self while nobody was touching the controller or PC. The controller was left in Auto mode, which we try to avoid, but because of this unexpected move, the probe head hit a fixture - luckily there was no damage, other than to my underwear.

We've also noticed a few sporadic changes to set nominal and / or tol in pre-existing programs.

This is really just a general overview of the many problems we've had on a regular basis over the last year that I've been here. I can't say for sure, but I have heard that the previous programmers here had many of the same problems.

We've been cautioned against upgrading to version 4 because of glitches, and there were a few problems my co-worker had when we installed 3.7 MR3 last month, so we were told to switch back to MR2.

Does anyone else have these kinds of problems, or have any idea how to stop some of these errors from occurring? I have a feeling a lot of it is the software, or the PC, but I wouldn't fault the CMM itself either, since everything seems more reliable on the newer Brown and Sharpe.

Any help would be great!

Thanks,
John

[Matthew D. Hoedeman]

We've had a few instances of the program skipping over clear planes that are marked active.


We've been cautioned against upgrading to version 4 because of glitches, and there were a few problems my co-worker had when we installed 3.7 MR3 last month, so we were told to switch back to MR2.

This is a problem with V3.5 ALL MR's. Insert a MOVE/INCREMENT of any tiny amount just BEFORE the clearance plane to 'work-around' this.



V3.7MR3- If you are current on your SMA, install it, it is about 3000% better than V3.5 anything.

[JamesMannes]

If you have a current SMA, I would suggest that you at least give 4.1 a try. At this point what can it hurt to use it on a sample program (copy of one known to have been the giver of grief). Only an observation on my part but, since HEXAGON bought up SHEFFIELD they have made specific efforts to make compatible the SHEFFIELD controller/machines and PC-DMIS. This did not/would not have taken place until they were well into making 4.0. So, with that said, you may have better luck going forward then just moving up an MR. All the reports can be printed out just like you see them now so don't worry about all the fuss over "the new reporting style" that everyone is bashing (except me and Jan). Take it for what it's worth.

And welcome to the forum, hope to see you on here again!!!

[craiger_ny]

Welcome aboard John. At a minimum go to 3.7 MR3. If you can "downgrade" to 3.2 but I don't know what that means in regards to your control plus you'll have to convert your programs. If you are maried and you ever reflect on your single days that is what it is like using 3.7 and remembering the good old stable life of 3.2. I still have 3.2 on 2 machines here and it is always refreshing to get on them.

James Doolittle still up there? It seams to me he worked at DP tool. Anyway nice to see another New Yorker here.

If anything I am sure you know where in Henrietta Beers of the World is. The answer to a lot of your problems can be found there. In the mean time this is the right place. Oh, we have a back room too.

[Octopussjump]

craiger_NY,

yeah, actually, a good friend of mine's family owns Beers of the world. Great place.

Jim Doolittle was an intern, so he sort of worked here on and off over the past few years. He's finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel for his Engineering degree, so he won't be working with us anymore. (he's the one who tried MR3)

I'm now the main CMM / Programming guy here. I've only got about a year of experience with all of this software, and about a year of light Mazatrol CNC Lathe programming before that.

As for everyone suggesting we move into a different version or upgrade to 4.1 - I'm totally with you, but I'm getting a bit of flack from my superiors on it.

Ray from PrimeTech suggested we actually stay with 3.7 because of the chance of screwing up a good thing with the Brown and Sharpe CMM and it's variables programs. Plus the idea is to run the same thing on both our machines because everything is hooked up to a network, so we can store our programs in customer folders and access them anywhere.

They're just real nervous about changing anything, and I don't really know enough to convince them otherwise.

I know they'd never want to go back to 3.2 because of all the work it would be to convert everything.

Thanks for all the input though! I'll make sure to pass it along to the big wigs.

[mattfurtaw]

We have a DEA Mistral. And I know that when I was using V3.7 MR3 I would have a problem with the Y axis moving when the safty switch was held in on the controller. Never really figured out why it did this but I just usually restarted the PC and the hardware and it took care of the problem until next time. I have been using V4.1 for about 3 weeks now and I have not noticed that particular condition yet. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[Matthew D. Hoedeman]

craiger_NY,

yeah, actually, a good friend of mine's family owns Beers of the world. Great place.

Jim Doolittle was an intern, so he sort of worked here on and off over the past few years. He's finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel for his Engineering degree, so he won't be working with us anymore. (he's the one who tried MR3)

I'm now the main CMM / Programming guy here. I've only got about a year of experience with all of this software, and about a year of light Mazatrol CNC Lathe programming before that.

As for everyone suggesting we move into a different version or upgrade to 4.1 - I'm totally with you, but I'm getting a bit of flack from my superiors on it.

Ray from PrimeTech suggested we actually stay with 3.7 because of the chance of screwing up a good thing with the Brown and Sharpe CMM and it's variables programs. Plus the idea is to run the same thing on both our machines because everything is hooked up to a network, so we can store our programs in customer folders and access them anywhere.

They're just real nervous about changing anything, and I don't really know enough to convince them otherwise.

I know they'd never want to go back to 3.2 because of all the work it would be to convert everything.

Thanks for all the input though! I'll make sure to pass it along to the big wigs.

This cold very well be part of the problem. What happens if more than one machine tried to access the same program? CRASH! Are your probe files stored there as well? BAD IDEA! The probe files are very machine specific, VERY! As wella s teh fact that Pcdmis does not really play well with 'net access. Put those programs on the PC at the machine and you could very well see all of the problems you talked about go away.

[Octopussjump]

I have heard before that it isn't great to use the programs off a network drive. Unfortunately, that's how the big boss man wanted it. It was actually a good idea, at least in theory.

Honestly, most of the time we're able to load and run all the programs off the network with no problems - however, if that is the main cause for all the problems we have I guess they've got me up $hit creek...

I've been checking parts all day on this thing now, and it's only screwed up 1 time - which even after a restart of the CMM and PC, still ended up with a crash, because the software thought it had selected a 40mm extension instead of the currently loaded 60mm... Well that and I wasn't watching it like a hawk. (Should I really have to though? Isn’t that part of the point of programming an automatic machine in the first place? Once it's proofed out, I should be able to let it run while I take care of other things.)

The two CMM's both have separate probe flies stored on their PC's local drives.

Since the Brown and Sharpe CMM is set up to check a certain style of part based off 3 different sized steel tubes (with a few hundred variations of hole patterns and such) for 2 different customers, the likelihood of someone trying to load a part program that is also in use on the Sheffield is slim to none.


I really appreciate everyone's replies on this post. I think I'll have to start checking this forum on a regular basis.

[#2#]

The two CMM's both have separate probe flies stored on their PC's local drives.

Since the Brown and Sharpe CMM is set up to check a certain style of part based off 3 different sized steel tubes (with a few hundred variations of hole patterns and such) for 2 different customers, the likelihood of someone trying to load a part program that is also in use on the Sheffield is slim to none.


I really appreciate everyone's replies on this post. I think I'll have to start checking this forum on a regular basis.

I'm with Matt, network program storage can be problematic. I'd try for a while, opening a program from the network, save it to the hard drive, run it from the hard drive file, delete from hard drive when done. That way, you still have only the network file but you will be running from the hard drive.

I have had several different B&S people, techs, programmers, instructors all warn me about running programs from the network. I back up to the network and run from the hard drive. You could do the same. If you have an SMA, call tech support and ask them about running from the network. If they say don't do it, ask them to hold while you get the big boss on the line and have them tell him the exact same thing. Tell him how much the probe head costs and tell him having programs on the network could mean he gets to buy a new one of those sooner rather than later.

Also, I wonder about the probe files. Even though you say they are stored on the computer's hard drive for each machine, they would still have to have the same name for a program to work on either machine. Same name but different build up could cause some problems.

[cmmguy]

Hello,
This is my first post on here. My Name is John, and I work at DP Tool & Machine in Avon, NY. Sorry for the length of this post, but I’m really stumped on this.

We are currently running 2 CMM's with PC-DMIS PRO 3.7 MR2 - a 1 - 2 year old XXXXXXXXXXX, and a Sheffield Endeavor Series. 90% of the time we are running a program based off a variables list on the B&S and for the most part, it's total amount of glitches and restarts is pretty acceptable. Keep in mind its being run almost constantly over 3 shifts a day.

However on the Sheffield we experience almost daily shut downs with a number of different error messages. Sometimes this will happen repeatedly in the span of a few hours - other times things go well for the better part of a week.

I thought this was an AA post for a minute....

Switch to version 3.7 mr3 This is very stable with the Sheffields. MR2 is NOT.

V4.x is not needed as they have made 3.7mr3 pretty good. If you SMA/portlock expired even as late as Feb 06 you can install MR3. You will find that most of those problems will go away. It is related to the Sheffield.dll(interfac.dll)

Also make sure that you have all of the settings correct for the Controller. Go to the sheffield web site, I think there is a PCDMIS Installation guide there or call SHEFFIELD tech Support and ask for the PCDMIS Installation guide. It is important to get the settings correct for the sheffield.

Maybe UnderSpec has a copy he can email you(it is on the Sheffield CD)

[Kingkrab]

Good luck John,
We converted our Sheffield from Measure Max, to pc-dmis 3.5, 3.7, 4.0, 4.1, and now 4.2 all the different MR's, years ago. Have had nothing but problems since. Does not like auto features, at all. Hardware guys say it's software. Software guys say it's hardware. I say let the new guys use the crap machine and send them to the boss when they have problems.

[bw_bob]

Good luck John,
We converted our Sheffield from Measure Max, to pc-dmis 3.5, 3.7, 4.0, 4.1, and now 4.2 all the different MR's, years ago. Have had nothing but problems since. Does not like auto features, at all. Hardware guys say it's software. Software guys say it's hardware. I say let the new guys use the crap machine and send them to the boss when they have problems.

Up before 5 this morning answering 9 month old posts....thats dedication..i think

[Wes Cisco]

Up before 5 this morning answering 9 month old posts....thats dedication..i think

You have to admit that not only is it dedication, but style, flair, & verve too. Fishing with crab meat that fetches a premium price instead of usually "junk" bait most fishers use.