New to CMM

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  • New to CMM

    Hi gurus'
    My company just purchased a Starrett RGDC 4040-24 with a PH10 head and TP200 probe. Upgraded the Apogee software to PC-DMIS 4.1.

    I have no experience with inspection or operating a CMM. I am a CNC programmer and now am responsible for programming the CMM. I have taken the basic class 3 weeks ago. Was suppose to have the CMM and PC-DMIS up a week after my training but the tech got delayed until late last week. Now I am trying to remebember the whole class.

    So far I am doing okay but ran into some questions that has me stumped.

    1. When you create a feature that you are going to measure do you have to dimension in that workplane or can I wait until I am done writing the whole program and create the dimensions at the end?

    2. What kind of fixturing should I get for general machined parts and casting?
    example: flat plate with screw holes for clamps, angled plates, 2 sided tape

    3. On parts that have angles and I rotated the probe normal to the face of the angle and create a plane off of the face. Do I need to set the workplane to the created plane before creating a feature like a hole that is on the angle? Or do I just leave it in the ZPLUS workplane. Also my machine does not have that feature where the probe can move parrallel to the rotation of the probe. Is there any special trick on probe technique for those weird angles? Or do I need to practice more?

    4. Can somebody explain to me why you would use iterative alignment versus 3-2-1 alignment? Is it only use when the datums are not straight edges.

    I downloaded the pdf that jamesmannes had on another thread about helping out people who are new to PC-DMIS.

    I am learning a lot more than I learn in the basic class just reading in these forums and searching the archives.

    Thanks for all the help so far.
    Starrett 4040-24
    Renishaw PH10M head
    Renishaw TP200
    PC-DMIS CAD++ 4.2!!! crashed my probe into the table
    Moving on to 4.2mr1

  • #2
    Originally posted by eg92b16a2 View Post
    Hi gurus'
    My company just purchased a Starrett RGDC 4040-24 with a PH10 head and TP200 probe. Upgraded the Apogee software to PC-DMIS 4.1.

    I have no experience with inspection or operating a CMM. I am a CNC programmer and now am responsible for programming the CMM. I have taken the basic class 3 weeks ago. Was suppose to have the CMM and PC-DMIS up a week after my training but the tech got delayed until late last week. Now I am trying to remebember the whole class.
    Welcome and good luck! You don't mention if you have inspection experience. If you don't, any training you can get in inspection (calipers, micrometers, surface plate work, etc.) will be of great help. It is always nice to check something more than one way to gain confidence in your cmm work.

    Originally posted by eg92b16a2 View Post
    So far I am doing okay but ran into some questions that has me stumped.

    1. When you create a feature that you are going to measure do you have to dimension in that workplane or can I wait until I am done writing the whole program and create the dimensions at the end?
    You can either dimension right after a feature or wait and do all dimensions at once at the end of the program. You do need to watch which workplane you are in though. It can be changed back and forth, back and forth at the end of the program though. There are certain advantages to doing them all at once at the end of a program. There are certain disadvantages. I think mostly, it is personal preference.

    Originally posted by eg92b16a2 View Post
    2. What kind of fixturing should I get for general machined parts and casting?
    example: flat plate with screw holes for clamps, angled plates, 2 sided tape
    Whatever you can. If you do get dedicated fixtures for certain parts, make sure they are designed and built well. Make sure they are repeatable prior to use. The threaded holes in the table, angled plates, v-blocks, 2 sided tape, hot glue, c-clamps - I have used them all. Lots of people have a Rayco plate (flat plate with screw holes) I have a "home made" one but don't use it much - could just be the parts I measure don't lend themselves well to using it. Hold your part however you can so that it is rigid (if it is a rigid part - if not, I don't envy you) and you can access all necessary features.

    Originally posted by eg92b16a2 View Post
    3. On parts that have angles and I rotated the probe normal to the face of the angle and create a plane off of the face. Do I need to set the workplane to the created plane before creating a feature like a hole that is on the angle? Or do I just leave it in the ZPLUS workplane. Also my machine does not have that feature where the probe can move parrallel to the rotation of the probe. Is there any special trick on probe technique for those weird angles? Or do I need to practice more?
    "learned" circles and lines are 2d features. For them you will need to change the workplane. Auto circles and auto lines are 3d features and you will not need to change the workplane. When in doubt, change the workplane. Just remember to run the machine slow until you have built up your confidence.

    Originally posted by eg92b16a2 View Post
    4. Can somebody explain to me why you would use iterative alignment versus 3-2-1 alignment? Is it only use when the datums are not straight edges.
    I'll let someone else handle this one.

    Originally posted by eg92b16a2 View Post
    I downloaded the pdf that jamesmannes had on another thread about helping out people who are new to PC-DMIS.

    I am learning a lot more than I learn in the basic class just reading in these forums and searching the archives.

    Thanks for all the help so far.
    Again, welcome, good luck and don't be afraid to ask - we've all made a fish hook or two.
    Last edited by #2#; 02-07-2007, 07:58 AM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by eg92b16a2 View Post
      3. On parts that have angles and I rotated the probe normal to the face of the angle and create a plane off of the face. Do I need to set the workplane to the created plane before creating a feature like a hole that is on the angle? Or do I just leave it in the ZPLUS workplane. Also my machine does not have that feature where the probe can move parrallel to the rotation of the probe. Is there any special trick on probe technique for those weird angles? Or do I need to practice more?
      In this case, after you measure the plane, when you go to measure the circle, it MAY or may not ask you to change the workplane. However, until you have measured that circle, you can not tell it to use the FEATURE (the plane! the plane!) until after you have finished measuring the hole. Then, where it says WORKPLANE in the edit (MEAS/LINE,2,WORKPLANE) you highlight WORKPLANE and hit F9 and it will toggle to FEATURE. Then, you can enter in the FEATURE ID for the plane (the plane). This example is for a line, but it is the same for a circle.
      sigpic
      Originally posted by AndersI
      I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by eg92b16a2 View Post
        Hi gurus'
        My company just purchased a Starrett RGDC 4040-24 with a PH10 head and TP200 probe. Upgraded the Apogee software to PC-DMIS 4.1.

        I

        3. On parts that have angles and I rotated the probe normal to the face of the angle and create a plane off of the face. Do I need to set the workplane to the created plane before creating a feature like a hole that is on the angle? Or do I just leave it in the ZPLUS workplane. Also my machine does not have that feature where the probe can move parrallel to the rotation of the probe. Is there any special trick on probe technique for those weird angles? Or do I need to practice more?


        WGS
        Fresh Meat! j/k Welcome to the forum and the nightmare of pc-demon. You have a big learning curve ahead of you but it is not insurmountable.


        I find the easiest way to work with features like this is measure the plane and then make a special alignment that levels to the plane, (when possible), or just rotate my current alignment to the the plane so I can measure features in line with that plane with normal vectors, (0,0,1 / 0,1,0 / 1,0,0). Whenever possible use 3D features here, (cylinders, cones, etc.), instead of 2D features. Then recall your previous alignment for dimensioning purposes. I mostly use movepoints and do not know of an option to make the probe move parallel to it's rotation.

        One other tip that comes to mind is that workplanes are critical to 2D dimensions as well as features. So distances and angle between features requires the proper workplane be active to give the proper results.

        There are many very skilled programmers who keep a pretty close eye on this board. Don't be afraid to ask any question you may have, but as soon as you post, scroll to the bottom of the screen and see if the board has pulled up a similar thread that has your answer.

        May the farce be with you!

        P.S. Whiskey is better than most things! Most of us like to poke fun at each other, (in a good natured way) and consume alcohol. The first helps with the stress at work and the latter helps with stress outside of work. Then there is Bw_Bob who I suspect wakes up and goes to bed with a shot of Gentleman Jack.
        sigpic"Hated by Many, Loved by Few" _ A.B. - Stone brewery

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        • #5
          1. When you create a feature that you are going to measure do you have to dimension in that workplane or can I wait until I am done writing the whole program and create the dimensions at the end?

          Answer: If you are simply using the auto features being in the proper working plane is not a concern but if you are doing projection features or any type of feature constructions you must be in the proper workplane.

          2. What kind of fixturing should I get for general machined parts and casting?
          example: flat plate with screw holes for clamps, angled plates, 2 sided tape

          Answer: How much money do you have to spend? I would recommend a Rayco plate fixture with at least the basic accessories. They are expensive but well worth the money. A machinist vise, a couple of precision V-blocks, and a couple of magnetic V-blocks (these come in very handy). In some cases simple modeling clay and a hot glue gun can come in handy.

          3. On parts that have angles and I rotated the probe normal to the face of the angle and create a plane off of the face. Do I need to set the workplane to the created plane before creating a feature like a hole that is on the angle? Or do I just leave it in the ZPLUS workplane. Also my machine does not have that feature where the probe can move parrallel to the rotation of the probe. Is there any special trick on probe technique for those weird angles? Or do I need to practice more?

          Answer: You may wish to level your alignment to that plane before measuring features and constructing features but it is not absolutely necessary. You lost me on this statement: Also my machine does not have that feature where the probe can move parrallel to the rotation of the probe.

          You may need more practice here.

          4. Can somebody explain to me why you would use iterative alignment versus 3-2-1 alignment? Is it only use when the datums are not straight edges.

          Answer: It's actually simpler than a 3-2-1- sometimes and you do not have to create offset planes/lines and you do not have to offset values to your cad coordinates like with a cad=part.

          I downloaded the pdf that jamesmannes had on another thread about helping out people who are new to PC-DMIS.

          Answer: I haven't seen it yet but I'm sure if it's from James it must be good so I'll have to go searching for it...

          I am learning a lot more than I learn in the basic class just reading in these forums and searching the archives.

          Answer: That tends to be the case. The basic class is just a means to get you started. Whatever you do, do not give up no matter how agravated you get with the bugs in the software or struggling to understand why the software does this or does that. In the long run you will be glad you stuck with it and so will the company you work for. Hopefully you are not dealing with complex parts with really strange geometry.

          GOOD LUCK & WELCOME TO THE FORUM...
          sigpic
          Xcel 15-20-10 - PFXcel 7-6-5 - Merlin 11-11-7 - Romer Absolute 7525SI
          PCDMIS 2012
          Windows Office XP

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          • #6
            Man we all jumped on that one. We must have all been typing at the same time.
            sigpic
            Xcel 15-20-10 - PFXcel 7-6-5 - Merlin 11-11-7 - Romer Absolute 7525SI
            PCDMIS 2012
            Windows Office XP

            Comment


            • #7
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              (don't listen to Ranger, he's a stranger!)
              sigpic
              Originally posted by AndersI
              I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

              Comment


              • #8
                Could somebody hook me up with James PDF? I've had a quick search but alas without much success.

                Cheers.
                Recently jumped from 3.5 Mr 2 CAD
                to 2012 CAD++

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Matthew D. Hoedeman View Post
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                  (don't listen to Ranger, he's a stranger!)

                  YOU MUST JOIN THE MATT FAN-CLUB! I'm sure someone will provide you with information as far as where to send your payments. My checks are in the mail...

                  VERY FUNNY MATT!
                  sigpic
                  Xcel 15-20-10 - PFXcel 7-6-5 - Merlin 11-11-7 - Romer Absolute 7525SI
                  PCDMIS 2012
                  Windows Office XP

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Wes Cisco View Post
                    I mostly use movepoints and do not know of an option to make the probe move parallel to it's rotation.
                    Wes, with some controllers, there is an option to set the jogbox up to move in the x,y,z directions of the current alignment. So, if you set a plate on the table rotated approx. 30º to the x axis and align to the plate, when you move the joystick left and right, the machine will move parallel to the plate (i.e. 30º).

                    Originally posted by rangerboat72 View Post
                    a couple of magnetic V-blocks
                    Magnetic items should be avoided if you have a TP20 with the standard probe body and modules. You will know right away if you do this because when you try to take a hit you won't be able to.
                    Last edited by #2#; 02-07-2007, 08:38 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Goodluck View Post
                      Magnetic items should be avoided if you have a TP20 with the standard probe body and modules. You will know right away if you do this because when you try to take a hit you won't be able to.

                      Good point GOODLUCK...
                      sigpic
                      Xcel 15-20-10 - PFXcel 7-6-5 - Merlin 11-11-7 - Romer Absolute 7525SI
                      PCDMIS 2012
                      Windows Office XP

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by eg92b16a2 View Post

                        I downloaded the pdf that jamesmannes had on another thread about helping out people who are new to PC-DMIS.
                        Can you tell which document that was? I'll post a new link.

                        Oh yeah, and a hearty welcome to the forum!!!!
                        Last edited by JamesMannes; 02-07-2007, 09:20 AM. Reason: Forgot to welcome
                        sigpic

                        James Mannes

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                        • #13
                          Welcome, great to see another CNC programmer come up on this. You're in the same boat I was 1.5 years ago. Just do it! It ain't that difficult. And this board will get you there.

                          Jan.
                          ***************************
                          PC-DMIS/NC 2010MR3; 15 December 2010; running on 18 machine tools.
                          Romer Infinite; PC-DMIS 2010 MR3; 15 December 2010.

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                          • #14
                            Welcome aboard. I can't say anything that hasn't already been said. My big thing is remember how to check on the plate!

                            And beer, beer will keep you going in this field. Also a thick skin and a sense of humor.

                            Membership to the Matt Hoedeman Fan Club is free for people we like, so welcome to the club! (Don't tell Ranger, he likes bears in a strange sort of way so we are blackballing him!)
                            Last edited by John Kingston; 02-07-2007, 09:34 AM.
                            When in doubt, post code. A second set of eyes might see something you missed.
                            sigpic

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by John Kingston View Post
                              (Don't tell Ranger, he likes bears in a strange sort of way so we are blackballing him!)
                              Ah hah! I almost missed that...
                              sigpic
                              Xcel 15-20-10 - PFXcel 7-6-5 - Merlin 11-11-7 - Romer Absolute 7525SI
                              PCDMIS 2012
                              Windows Office XP

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