Alignment crisis

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  • Alignment crisis

    I have the CAD model, and its origin is at the top center of the part, but y (on the CAD) is pointing in the direction I need for z (on the table).

    I've tried everything on this to get an alignment and am having no luck at all.

    I will include an image of what I am seeing after I import the CAD and make it solid. I intend on setting the part on the table big-end down, with the smallest cone shaped feature pointing up (Z).

    Matthew helped me with a part similar to this not long ago and he said the following:
    "If it is a round object with NOTHING to keep it from 'spinning', then you will not be able to do an iterative alignment. In fact, best bet, measure a plane that it is going to sit on, measure the bore, do a 'regular' alignment. With no 'clocking' feature, the rotation is not a problem. Level to the plane, set XY origin to the bore, set Z origin to the plane, ignore the rotation, set the offset, CAD=PART, you are ready to check and report."

    When I attempt to do the above, I'm not sure what I need to do for "offset". When I've tried it (CAD=PART), the circle I create is along the Z axis, 90 deg perpendicular to the model. Not good.
    Do I need to concern myself with Workplane?

    Please help, I have to get this part done ASAP.
    Last edited by d.evans; 01-29-2009, 06:13 PM.
    ** "Well, ain't this place a geographical oddity. Two weeks from everywhere!"~ Ulysses Everett McGill **

  • #2
    Download a copy of the print datum scheme.
    sigpic

    James Mannes

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    • #3
      Did you edit your machine to the cad? edit /prefs there is a tab there to change the machine axis to the cad
      sigpic
      if you had soap on a rope it would be tied to yer ankle

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      • #4
        drawing

        here is the print
        Last edited by d.evans; 01-29-2009, 06:13 PM.
        ** "Well, ain't this place a geographical oddity. Two weeks from everywhere!"~ Ulysses Everett McGill **

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        • #5
          Originally posted by T Miller View Post
          Did you edit your machine to the cad? edit /prefs there is a tab there to change the machine axis to the cad
          No I didn't. Should I?
          ** "Well, ain't this place a geographical oddity. Two weeks from everywhere!"~ Ulysses Everett McGill **

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          • #6
            Set youor part on the table and rotate your cad till it matches how you have it set on the table. Then do the edit. This works for me the few times I have cad
            sigpic
            if you had soap on a rope it would be tied to yer ankle

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            • #7
              DCC_ALIGN =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:MAN_ALIGN,LIST=YES
              ALIGNMENT/LEVEL,ZPLUS,PLN2
              ALIGNMENT/TRANS,XAXIS,FEAT20_0
              ALIGNMENT/TRANS,YAXIS,FEAT20_0
              ALIGNMENT/TRANS,ZAXIS,PLN2
              ALIGNMENT/END

              FEAT20_0 IS A CYLINDER
              PLN2 IS A PLANE ON MY GRANITE
              You should be able to make the plane on the top of the part -A-. Use some sort of cylinderical and/or conical device for the X,Y translation.
              You should be good to do CAD=PART after this alignment.

              (After the edit of your Part/Machine Part Setup to match how you have the part sitting on the table and after a manual and then DCC alignment).
              sigpic

              James Mannes

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              • #8
                What version of the software are you using? If v4.0 or higher just use the tranform tool in PCDMIS to rotate the Xaxis 90 degrees this will put the Z in the rotation you want and make your job easier.

                Operation>Graphics Display Window>Transform

                If your still using the older software versions then your going to have to be do it differently, but in this case it will likely be easiest to just change your machine Z axis to match the CAD Y axis. Then do your CAD = part alignment, and you should be ok then.

                Edit>Preferences>Part/Machine

                Yet a 3rd option would be to build an alignment to your part using manual hits and then rotate everything in that alignment to match your CAD axis and origin. Once in that alignment your CAD should automatically be in the correct alignment to your part. Doing a CAD=PART would then be unnecessary.

                There are alot of different ways to approach this. In the end your going to have to determine which best fits your situation, and more importantly what Datums your going to have to use.
                Mr. Comment
                SCIROCCO-NT 13-20-10
                B3C-LC Controller (Leitz Protocol), SP600M, TP200
                PCDMIS CAD++ v4.3 MR1(Build: 12/11/08)
                sigpic

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                • #9
                  I am using version 3.7 MR3. Thanks for your replies.
                  I have never done anything with making machine axes = CAD axes before. So, from what I read, I should:
                  1) Adjust the Machine Z to equal the CAD Y.

                  Then what? Do I take vector points using on the CAD, then execute them with the probe, and then CAD=PART?

                  Or,

                  Can I measure a plane (surface plate), then a circular feature of the part manually , then go insert/alignment/new level Y plus to measured plane, x and z origin, CAD=PART?
                  ** "Well, ain't this place a geographical oddity. Two weeks from everywhere!"~ Ulysses Everett McGill **

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                  • #10
                    [QUOTE=d.evans;45909]
                    1) Adjust the Machine Z to equal the CAD Y.

                    Then what? Do I take vector points using on the CAD, then execute them with the probe, and then CAD=PART?
                    QUOTE]

                    Thats probably the way I would do it.
                    Mr. Comment
                    SCIROCCO-NT 13-20-10
                    B3C-LC Controller (Leitz Protocol), SP600M, TP200
                    PCDMIS CAD++ v4.3 MR1(Build: 12/11/08)
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JamesMannes View Post
                      DCC_ALIGN =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:MAN_ALIGN,LIST=YES
                      ALIGNMENT/LEVEL,ZPLUS,PLN2
                      ALIGNMENT/TRANS,XAXIS,FEAT20_0
                      ALIGNMENT/TRANS,YAXIS,FEAT20_0
                      ALIGNMENT/TRANS,ZAXIS,PLN2
                      ALIGNMENT/END

                      FEAT20_0 IS A CYLINDER
                      PLN2 IS A PLANE ON MY GRANITE
                      You should be able to make the plane on the top of the part -A-. Use some sort of cylinderical and/or conical device for the X,Y translation.
                      You should be good to do CAD=PART after this alignment.

                      (After the edit of your Part/Machine Part Setup to match how you have the part sitting on the table and after a manual and then DCC alignment).

                      Still not working.

                      Here is what I'm doing...
                      I set the part on the granite cone-up.

                      Import the CAD.


                      Change CAD +Y = machine +Z
                      No change to X
                      Change CAD +Z = machine -Y

                      APPLY, OK.

                      Then I use the jog box to take 3 hits on the 'top' of part (DatA) for pln1
                      Then I manually measure the cone for con1.

                      Change workplane to Y+

                      Then I do INSERT/ALIGNMENT/NEW
                      Level to pln1- Z plus
                      Origin to con1- X and Y
                      Origin to pln1- Z pus

                      CAD=PART

                      then I get this...(see pic)

                      I dunno what I'm doing wrong.

                      Can someone spell-it-out for me?
                      Last edited by d.evans; 01-29-2009, 06:13 PM.
                      ** "Well, ain't this place a geographical oddity. Two weeks from everywhere!"~ Ulysses Everett McGill **

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                      • #12
                        I would think you need to change the work plane first
                        sigpic
                        if you had soap on a rope it would be tied to yer ankle

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by d.evans View Post
                          Still not working.

                          Here is what I'm doing...
                          I set the part on the granite cone-up.

                          Import the CAD.


                          Change CAD +Y = machine +Z
                          No change to X
                          Change CAD +Z = machine -Y

                          APPLY, OK.

                          Then I use the jog box to take 3 hits on the 'top' of part (DatA) for pln1
                          Then I manually measure the cone for con1.

                          Change workplane to Y+

                          Then I do INSERT/ALIGNMENT/NEW
                          Level to pln1- Z plus NEEDS TO BE +Y
                          Origin to con1- X and Y NEEDS TO BE Z AND X
                          Origin to pln1- Z pus NEEDS TO BE +Y

                          CAD=PART

                          then I get this...(see pic)

                          I dunno what I'm doing wrong.

                          Can someone spell-it-out for me?
                          The machine/Part thing only only so that your probe looks correct in the graphics window(but I do it every time I make a new program).

                          You've got the right idea just the wrong axis'
                          Now once you are done with that first alignment put the machine into DCC, make a new alignment just to rotate the axis' so that it looks like it is sitting on your table (rotate to the +y about the +x axis 90°.
                          Now do a new set of features just like the first. Make an alignment just like the first (remeber new coordinate system now) and then do CAD=PART.
                          sigpic

                          James Mannes

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by T Miller View Post
                            I would think you need to change the work plane first
                            Back to Z+?
                            ** "Well, ain't this place a geographical oddity. Two weeks from everywhere!"~ Ulysses Everett McGill **

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                            • #15
                              Mr. Miller is correct, if you are doign things 'from the top', then you need to change to that workplane first, then take your measurements, including the plane on top. I would also suggest that you take 4 hits for the plane, not just 3. It is a good idea to always take at least 1 more than the minimum number of hits for a feature. The minimum will ALWAYS return a 'prefect form' for the feature and a bad hit will not show up at all.
                              sigpic
                              Originally posted by AndersI
                              I've got one from September 2006 (bug ticket) which has finally been fixed in 2013.

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