Have you seen this symbol?

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  • Have you seen this symbol?

    Have anyone seen this symbol? I am talking about that M in the rectangle. What is that symbol represent? I am trying to find it in the ASME book I can't find this one. See attached B/P.
    Last edited by BANDY; 05-01-2008, 06:59 PM.
    Pc-Dmis 4.2, Zeiss Eclipse
    sigpic

  • #2
    I don't think it's an ASME symbol.
    Perhaps something specific to your customer?
    Lately, it occurs to me
    What a long, strange trip it's been.

    2017 R1 (Offline programming)

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    • #3
      It's a customer AQL requirement and stands for Major Characteristic. A characteristic, other than critical, which if defective could result in product failure on which the defective part is installed. Check your customer AQL for their specific definition. Hope that helps.

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      • #4
        When I worked in the auto world (now aerospace) the letters in the triangle and/or diamonds meant that the customer wanted to hold this dimension with either hard gaging 100% or controlled with SPC. It's was the customers critical char. the needed to be correct to mate to another part.
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        • #5
          I agree with the Major Characteristic.
          When in doubt, post code. A second set of eyes might see something you missed.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by knati View Post
            It's a customer AQL requirement and stands for Major Characteristic. A characteristic, other than critical, which if defective could result in product failure on which the defective part is installed. Check your customer AQL for their specific definition. Hope that helps.
            Agreement.

            Except I must point out IMHO a characteristic which if defective could result in product failure would to me be the definition of a critical characteristic.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Goodluck View Post
              Agreement.

              Except I must point out IMHO a characteristic which if defective could result in product failure would to me be the definition of a critical characteristic.

              Goodluck, This is your last warning! If you continue to make sense we will stop the planet and throw you off!
              -the mgmt.
              sigpic"Hated by Many, Loved by Few" _ A.B. - Stone brewery

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Wes Cisco View Post
                Goodluck, This is your last warning! If you continue to make sense we will stop the planet and throw you off!
                -the mgmt.
                Oh boy! I've always wanted to be a space traveller!




                Can you wait long enough for me to go get my towel?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Goodluck View Post
                  Oh boy! I've always wanted to be a space traveller!




                  Can you wait long enough for me to go get my towel?
                  You don't have it with you...... Be careful, the Bugblatter Beast of Trall may get you!

                  THGTTG was on last night. Unfortunately I missed it.
                  When in doubt, post code. A second set of eyes might see something you missed.
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                  • #10
                    The major characteristics controlled by a diamond encased M, is indeed a major characteristic. If applied properly according to the AIAG PPAP regulations, the diamond shape states that this feature is a safety characteristic and must be monitored, but, it is not a critical feature and does not have to exceed a 1.33 Cpk. They are basically pointing it out so that they can insure that this feature is addressed on the Control Plan of whomever runs the part.

                    Auto ppl do this all the time. Basically it's important enough for you to monitor, but, it doesn't have to be controlled by a 2/3 tolerance control limit. Sometimes vendors don't always feel certain things are important to their process so they overlook certain dimensions that are important to the customer on their control plans so this way the customer can point it out. Hey! We want you to pay attention to this one! That's all it is.

                    El Freak
                    DCCFreak

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dccfreak
                      Auto ppl do this all the time. Basically it's important enough for you to monitor, but, it doesn't have to be controlled by a 2/3 tolerance control limit.
                      If they want a 2/3 tolerance control limit why don't they dimension it that way?

                      I have a customer wanting us to "dial in" dimensionally acceptable parts closer than the print tolerance. Where is "dial in" addressed in standards?

                      "Yeah, your parts meet my print but can you get them closer?"
                      Perry
                      B&S Mistral
                      3.207 Beta on XP

                      Older'n dirt

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                      • #12
                        I would agee it's a Major/Minor Characteristic. My prints sometimes come with Diamond shaped symbols which are referred to in the "Notes" section as Major/Minor characteristics.
                        I used to be high on life but I built up a tolerance.

                        Brown & Sharpe Global Advantage
                        PCDMIS CAD++ v2011mr2
                        PH10MQ/SP600M


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dccfreak View Post
                          If applied properly according to the AIAG PPAP regulations, the diamond shape states that this feature is a safety characteristic and must be monitored, but, it is not a critical feature and does not have to exceed a 1.33 Cpk.
                          I'm going to do it again Wes...





                          So a safety characteristic is NOT a critical feature?!?




                          (rocking back and forth) Cabin in the woods, cabin in the woods...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Perry Fisher View Post
                            If they want a 2/3 tolerance control limit why don't they dimension it that way?

                            I have a customer wanting us to "dial in" dimensionally acceptable parts closer than the print tolerance. Where is "dial in" addressed in standards?

                            "Yeah, your parts meet my print but can you get them closer?"

                            2/3 tol meaning its not going to meet capability unless you are within two turds of the tolerance.

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                            • #15
                              2/3 tol meaning its not going to meet capability unless you are within two turds of the tolerance.
                              I understand meeting capability initially. I don't understand wanting production parts held closer than print tolerance.

                              Some of the parts we run those turds will have to be small rabbit turds.
                              Perry
                              B&S Mistral
                              3.207 Beta on XP

                              Older'n dirt

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