CMM operators who measure sheet metal parts...Question for you

[Jeff Hunt]

We have the anual QS 9000 inspection about to happen, & I need a difinitive answer on a question. Do you record the temprature in your room every day? The reason I ask this is that they want us to do this & it seems like a wast of time for me. I understand that temperature affects measurements, but we are talking about sheet metal stampings that have a thighest tolerance +/- .5 mm. Add the fact that these parst are coming right out of the dies, so they are kind of warm sometimes & if they sit they cool off. Out of all of the variable that would effect measurements, I see the temperture of the room to be the least of my worries.

[J. Pick]

We do metal stamping, with similar tolerances, and we have never been asked to record room temp for (nor do we record it). We have a temp. controlled lab, but like you said - the parts are checked right off of the die.

[STANLEY]

The temp gets automatically recorded. I never had an auditor ask for it, during a QS or TS audit. Its easier to do it then fight the powers to be.

[\v/inston]

they pimped us on that too. we purchased a 'Dickson' temp & humidity data logger that is conected to this pc. it logs that temp and humidity every hour but you can set it up how ever you want. if you are concerned that this could be a major non-conformance then you may want to order one of these babies and have it up and running before the auditor gets you. actually this is the second company i worked for that the QS auditor got us on that. i think the unit was like ~170 bucks.

http://www.dicksonweb.com/info/home.php

[Paul Sarrach]

If you say you do it. You have to.

[george frick]

i work for general dynamics in the defense industry. we are ISO90002. we are required to keep our temp @ 68+/-2 degrees in our lab and have it charted 24/7.

[ag162]

We are required to document the temp/humidity on a daily basis. I have only had this requirement at 2 companies. But that is because, the companies set thier own process as per QS 9000.

A.Gore

[Matthew D. Hoedeman]

If it isn't in your QS9000 standards, then YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO IT. The auditor CAN NOT MAKE UP YOUR standards for you, YOU make them, then you follow them. We have never had the temp issue, but the auditor we have, we had to almost hit him over the head to get him to understand several things about this shop. He kept wanting tags on every piece of sheet metal stamping we had in the shop, he wanted them all seperated by 'good' or 'bad'. We are NOT a production shop, we build the tools that stamp the parts. OUR product is the DIE, not the part. We stamp parts to check to see if the DIE will make an acceptable part, then, the part is junk, they ALL go in the trash, so why would we need to tag and sort all the parts? I think it took 3 years to finally get this through his head. WE SELL THE DIE, not the part. The part is only used to see if the tool will produce what the customer wants.

QS9000 = YOUR PROCEDURES, YOUR PROCESSES, NOT THE AUDITOR'S! (oops, QS not ISO)
DOCUMENT WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU DOCUMENT, PERIOD.

[Hilton Roberts]

It all depends....

If your tolerances are loose enough, it may not be an issue.

How "warm" are the parts fresh off the dies?

You can figure 6.5 ppm times the number of degrees from 68 times the number of inches to get an idea of the effect of thermals on your parts if you are checking steel. You can pretty much double that for aluminum.

I do not know how big your parts are but a 30 inch dimension on a hole location could be as much as .0058 inch if the part is 30 degrees warmer than the standard temperature of 68.

If your machine is in a shop environment all bets are off unless the machine is calibrated in the environment in which it is used and that temperature is stable.

Maybe it is no problem for your parts....

Hilton

[Paul Sarrach]

There is a lot of over kill, time and money wasted on many things that have to do with qs9000. Find out what you can eliminate in you procedures. Find out you minimal requirments. State and do only that. I bet everyone out there can eliminate something.

[Rick Coleman]

I'm in the same situation as Matt. We make dies to make hot & cold stampings. Our product is the die and NOT the stampings falling off the end of the tool. We have not had an issue with collecting and recording temperature data in the CMM lab. Our ISO standards have never called for it. I have a feeling that this may become an issue for me in the future because the lab is on the same heating/cooling system as the wire room; guess where the thermostat is. And to top it off, the wire guy on second shift likes it warm. I've come in in the morning to a room that is 76'. I guess the next step is to put a lock box over the thermostat.

[Lawrence Hardtacke]

We produce primarily sheet metal parts and have never been asked about the temperature
during an audit. But as others have said, you are required to do only what you have
documented. Remember, document what you do and do what you document.

[jmgreen]

Preach on Matt. I too have made similar arguements and fought similar battles. I would also suggest checking any customer required items. If the temp. issue is included then it should be included in your procedure.

[\v/inston]

I guess the next step is to put a lock box over the thermostat.

they did that at the place i used to work, put a plastic lock box over the thermostat. i drilled two tiny holes where the up & down buttons were so you could stick a small gage pin in it and turn the heat up or down.

[kbotta]

Ruthless Winston.
That is the bain of my frustration right now.
Someone keeps tampering with the theromostat, even though it is "locked" and there are signs saying what temp it is to be on.

Kev