Wierd noise + condensation?

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  • Wierd noise + condensation?

    condensation*

    Weird subtle creaking noises coming from CMM when traveling at move speed.

    Also there appears to be condensation building up on the z column when left to sit for a bit (see picture).

    I know very little about CMM hardware.

    IMAG0715.jpg

    Sounds like creaking/light knocking as if temp were lowering or raising rapidly. It's not, room is controlled, but that's what it sounds like.
    Also I'm getting unexpected probe hits in the middle of travel now.....

    All new to me. I'm thinking it's all related, was not like this at the end of last week.

    Still appears to be getting repeatable results... though I'm leery to keep running it before i find out what's going on.
    Last edited by TommyArrow; 07-16-2013, 06:17 PM. Reason: added more info
    (>'-')> <('-'<) ^(' - ')^ <('-'<) (>'-')>

  • #2
    Not sure about the condensation, but we are having an issue when moving in the z axis we are getting a grinding noise and false hits that I think is the counter balance and management thinks is caused by the air bearings. I'm waiting on HEX to send a service engineer (hopefully today or tomorrow) to look at the issue.

    It has gotten so bad that I have shutdown the CMM. This morning while calibrating tips when the CMM was moving down in z it dropped about 2". I'm just glad it didn't put the tip into the table or the calibration-sphere.

    I'll post when I have had service tell me what it is.
    DeWain Hodge

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    • #3
      I have had some creaking noises in our Global,it was the drive belt,had it adjusted all it went away.As for the condensation are you using an air dryer and is it working?

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      • #4
        looks like contaminated air bleeding oil/water through the air bearings.
        may have also damaged the counterbalance seals (hence the noise).
        recommend spending a lot of money to have the cmm re-piped and cleaned before the counterbalance lets go or seizes
        as the contamination is in the air pipes now and wont come out.
        then spend a small amount of money on an air cleaner/dessicator that would have prevented the problem in the first place.

        BTW I'm not being sarcastic, this is the wording of an e-mail I sent to our md when one of our chameleons suffered the same fate.
        (they ignored me as the maintenance dept said the air was "clean")
        Roses are red
        Violets are glorious
        Don't try to sneak up
        On Oscar Pistorius.

        MIL-TFP-41C

        3.7mr3, 2012mr1, 2013mr1

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        • #5
          Originally posted by TommyArrow View Post
          condensation*

          Weird subtle creaking noises coming from CMM when traveling a move speed.

          Also there appears to be condensation building up on the z column when left to sit for a bit (see picture).

          I know very little about CMM hardware.

          Sounds like creaking/light knocking as if temp were lowering or raising rapidly. It's not, room is controlled, but that's what it sounds like.
          Also I'm getting unexpected probe hits in the middle of travel now.....

          All new to me. Still appears to be getting repeatable results... though I'm leery to keep running it before i find out what's going on.
          The last thing you need is the ingress of water, moisture, or condensation in any shape or form on your Cmm & you need to get it eliminated.

          That is why we have 'air dryers' between the compressor & the Cmm so as to supply an un-contaminated supply to aid accuracy & repeatability.

          Possibly you now have microbial infection causing an air bearing to scrape & graunch along a slide way somewhere...hence your noises.

          The Cmm is under your 'ownership' & if you are not happy let someone know upstairs & keep records of your concerns, who you told & on what dates.

          'CYA' insurance as it is better known.
          Poleaxe

          Beware the environment you live in for it will shape you
          Be careful the friends you choose for you will become like them.

          sigpic

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          • #6
            Originally posted by pwhitsa View Post
            looks like contaminated air bleeding oil/water through the air bearings.
            may have also damaged the counterbalance seals (hence the noise).
            recommend spending a lot of money to have the cmm re-piped and cleaned before the counterbalance lets go or seizes
            as the contamination is in the air pipes now and wont come out.
            then spend a small amount of money on an air cleaner/dessicator that would have prevented the problem in the first place.

            BTW I'm not being sarcastic, this is the wording of an e-mail I sent to our md when one of our chameleons suffered the same fate.
            (they ignored me as the maintenance dept said the air was "clean")
            We actually had all the air lines replaced because we had one pop off because they were so old/yellow/hard about two weeks ago, perhaps they messed something up?

            Also we do have a dryer between the compressors and here, but we have added three new cnc machines in the last two months, perhaps it is not keeping up to the added machine requirements and operators using the additional air nozzles they had installed?

            I have let my concerns known to the higher powers, but the noise went away after it sat for an hour when i went to show them the problem, so they told me to let them know if it happens again....
            (>'-')> <('-'<) ^(' - ')^ <('-'<) (>'-')>

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            • #7
              Ok if you just had it re-piped then its residual stuff coming through the system.
              expect it to continue, you will never get rid of all of it.
              clean regularly so it doesn't get on the scales.
              the noises will disappear if they are just crap working through the system.
              Roses are red
              Violets are glorious
              Don't try to sneak up
              On Oscar Pistorius.

              MIL-TFP-41C

              3.7mr3, 2012mr1, 2013mr1

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by TommyArrow View Post
                Also we do have a dryer between the compressors and here, but we have added three new cnc machines in the last two months, perhaps it is not keeping up to the added machine requirements and operators using the additional air nozzles they had installed?

                If that was the case you would (probably) instead be seeing an "Air pressure/Lube fault" on your screen. If it has insufficient pressure it's pretty good about stopping and telling you

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by TheyCallMeWoody View Post
                  If that was the case you would (probably) instead be seeing an "Air pressure/Lube fault" on your screen. If it has insufficient pressure it's pretty good about stopping and telling you
                  Yeah we get that when too many of our jig grinders are running .

                  Thanks everyone for the information, I'll continue to document for y'all and my "CYA" policy. As of all today the problem has not repeated .



                  PS - I Found that we have two air/oil filters / desiccators right before our machines. Do they require maintenance?... Or do they just go bad?

                  Found or log books and maintenance fellow does it I guess.
                  Last edited by TommyArrow; 07-16-2013, 04:21 PM. Reason: answered my own question
                  (>'-')> <('-'<) ^(' - ')^ <('-'<) (>'-')>

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TommyArrow View Post
                    Yeah we get that when too many of our jig grinders are running .

                    Thanks everyone for the information, I'll continue to document for y'all and my "CYA" policy. As of all today the problem has not repeated .



                    PS - I Found that we have two air/oil filters / desiccators right before our machines. Do they require maintenance?... Or do they just go bad?

                    Found or log books and maintenance fellow does it I guess.
                    'I guess' is NOT fully taking ownership of the Cmm. You need to extend your ownership further to comply with your CYA Policy.

                    2,000 hours or 12 months which ever is sooner is a rule of thumb maintenance for all the filters, lines, connectors etc.
                    Poleaxe

                    Beware the environment you live in for it will shape you
                    Be careful the friends you choose for you will become like them.

                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Poleaxe View Post

                      2,000 hours or 12 months which ever is sooner is a rule of thumb maintenance for all the filters, lines, connectors etc.
                      Thanks for the information Poleaxe.
                      (>'-')> <('-'<) ^(' - ')^ <('-'<) (>'-')>

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                      • #12
                        The service engineer just left. He say that yes the counterbalance is on its last leg, but he tried lubing it and the grinding has gone away for now. He thinks it could last anywhere from the next couple of days to as much as the next five years. I'm going to try and get the QAM to let me order a new counterbalance and replace it.


                        Originally posted by DeWain Hodge View Post
                        Not sure about the condensation, but we are having an issue when moving in the z axis we are getting a grinding noise and false hits that I think is the counter balance and management thinks is caused by the air bearings. I'm waiting on HEX to send a service engineer (hopefully today or tomorrow) to look at the issue.

                        It has gotten so bad that I have shutdown the CMM. This morning while calibrating tips when the CMM was moving down in z it dropped about 2". I'm just glad it didn't put the tip into the table or the calibration-sphere.

                        I'll post when I have had service tell me what it is.
                        DeWain Hodge

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DeWain Hodge View Post
                          The service engineer just left. He say that yes the counterbalance is on its last leg, but he tried lubing it and the grinding has gone away for now. He thinks it could last anywhere from the next couple of days to as much as the next five years. I'm going to try and get the QAM to let me order a new counterbalance and replace it.
                          Yeah, once you've reached "that point" (and you have) they tend to go out sooner rather than later

                          When the QAM complains about the cost (and he probably will), ask him how much it costs the company to have it down for 2 days....

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                          • #14
                            So it started up again.....

                            We called our guy we use to repair and calibrate our CMMs and he came in and found it to be loose hoses bouncing around inside the bridge body. Also said, because Illinois has been so hot the past week or so he has answered many service calls that he found heat or humidity at the source of the problem. So he explained that when I hear this "creaking", it could be the hoses rubbing along each other do to the excess humidity, but we could not get that noise to repeat today (cooler today). So he loosened the holds on some of the anchor points for the hoses. The popping that sounded like an oven heated up was fixed though, which was the hose bouncing around.

                            This is same company who redid our air lines, but it was one of his employees not he himself.

                            So basically the hoses were to tight in some spots and hanging too freely where they should not have been in others, is my understanding.

                            Problems gone for now it seems.

                            PS - Goes to show how touchy these blasted contraptions are considering a hose knocking into the body of the bridge could throw off my probe calibrations. It makes perfect sense now, but I never would have guessed. The more you know.
                            Last edited by TommyArrow; 07-19-2013, 03:56 PM.
                            (>'-')> <('-'<) ^(' - ')^ <('-'<) (>'-')>

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