inserting move points

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  • inserting move points

    We had to start writing a program using a CAD model, but without the knowledge of exactly where the fixture will locate the part.
    We assumed (I know, bad idea) that we could put move points in the features afterwords to avoid the fixture.
    We used autofeatures, and now cannot find a way to insert a move point inbetween the hits within the feature.
    Please, someone tell me that there is a way to do this...........if not I got a lot of work ahead of me re-programming.
    When we try to insert move points, it puts them at the end of the feature, and will not allow us to insert them inbetween hits.
    3.7 mr2
    Can anyone help?????

  • #2
    Shelly, I think yer stuck.
    You can insert moves into measured or learned features but not auto features.
    Lately, it occurs to me
    What a long, strange trip it's been.

    2017 R1 (Offline programming)

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    • #3
      bummer....the only good thing is that I am not the one who has to reprogram, my quality accomplice does, but she aint gonna be too happy tomorrow morning when I give her the news!
      Our server (and thus internet/email) is down so I had to ask this question at home.
      So if we continue to use cad to measure, our best bet, if we have to make a program without exact idea of the fixture yet, is to use points, and construct features from those then?
      Seams like alot of extra programming, hey B&S are you listening......I would have thought that being able to insert move points into an autofeature would have been somewhere in this software, and if not, IT SHOULD BE!

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      • #4
        I don't know what your parts or fixtures look like, but I would guess that the fixture is only going to require you to insert movepoints into the middle of a few features, and the rest of the time you can use move points outside the autofeatures to manuever around the fixture in between measuring features. If this is the case, I would continue to write the program offline with autofeatures, then when you have it all on the table, identify the problem spots and simply reprogram those features with the necessary move points right before the autofeature and then delete the autofeature. This will work great unless the feature in question is part of an alignment. Then it can still work but you will have to tweek the alignment after your editing. You will also have to tweek all dimensions that involve the feature in question, but it is not as bad as it sounds. Everything that will need tweeking will be red because it references something no longer there. When I have to do this sort of thing I add a letter or character to the end of the name of the feature and then remove it after I delete the one I am replacing, this way my new feature has the same exact name as the one it replaces. Helps me keep things straight in my head. Well, ok, nothing really does that, but I do seem to manage better this way. I think this approach would overall be faster than programming everything from points all the way through. If none of what I have just said will help you any at all because of your particular part/fixture, maybe it will help someone else. Remember that alcohol helps to numb pain! Good Luck.


        P.S. I just noticed you say 3.7 MR2. I strongly recommend downloading and upgrading to MR3, it is much more stable. Having said that I must also note that all versions of the demon I have worked with are prone to collaspe when doing the sort of editing I describe above. Especially alignments for some reason. Therefore, if control-s is not a habit, make sure you do it often when editing. Few things are worse than to work for an hour or two and be almost done when "pc-dlrn has generated errors and is now going make you scream while pulling your own hair out by the roots!"
        Last edited by Wes Cisco; 09-07-2006, 10:35 PM.
        sigpic"Hated by Many, Loved by Few" _ A.B. - Stone brewery

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        • #5
          Excellent advice Mr.Crisco!!!
          I couldn't have said it better(well I could have, but I didn't want to show up ).
          sigpic

          James Mannes

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          • #6
            Shelly,

            That is exactly the way that I do it here as well, Write the program without any move points then run it SLOW SLOW SLOW the first time you run it and add the move points between your auto features as you go. I never have the gage data when I program off line and this works quite well. Just be very cautious the first time and the 2nd time you run the program. It's very easy to insert a move point in the wrong place in your program. Run super slow the first time you run it with the new move points too. After you've proven the program with the move points, you can speed it up to normal run speed, however those first two times it's very very important to go super slow.

            Bill

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Wes Cisco
              I don't know what your parts or fixtures look like, but I would guess that the fixture is only going to require you to insert movepoints into the middle of a few features, and the rest of the time you can use move points outside the autofeatures to manuever around the fixture in between measuring features. If this is the case, I would continue to write the program offline with autofeatures, then when you have it all on the table, identify the problem spots and simply reprogram those features with the necessary move points right before the autofeature and then delete the autofeature. This will work great unless the feature in question is part of an alignment.
              Ok, what Wes said but... What I would do if you need to replace an auto feature which needs move points in the middle AND the feature is part of an alignment...

              First save your program as a different name - backup the program so that if something goes wonky (sorry Wes there's that word again) you can go back to what you started with.

              Just before the autofeature do a learned feature with move points etc. Then, place your cursor in the NAME of auto feature you wish to delete. Go to Edit-Find. The name of the autofeature should be automatically entered into the search field. Click find next and it will jump to the point in the program where the autofeature is next referenced. Change the reference to the name of the learned feature. Click "no" if it asks about updating things with the new alignment or updating nominals of dims. Then click "find next" and repeat until the only thing it finds referencing the autofeature name is the autofeature. Then it is safe to delete the auto feature.

              Goodluck!

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              • #8
                Goodluck,
                I like "wonky" it sounds more professional than many of the terms I tend towards when a program becomes unusable. I should have mentioned the wisdom of backing up before editing, but I back everything up fanatically, and I am guilty of assuming it did not need to be mentioned here. For example as I am writing a program, not only do I control-s every minute or two, but I also do a save-as with a slightly different name, every 3 or 4 hours. Then when the program is complete and proven I go back and backup the finished program and delete all the progressive saves. I also considered but did not think I needed to mention to answer "NO!" that dastardly question about changing everything after you alter the alignment, or that you should run slow and careful until you have proven your program. I tend to get long winded when I start typing, so I have implemented a procedure designed to maximize the likelihood of a pithy or terse end product.

                I like the sound of your method and will give it a try next time the need arises. I use find/replace often, but you must be careful. If your feature name is CIR15 and you want to replace all of those, but you also have some features in your program named CIR151 or CIR15K, you could easily replace them as well if you are not on the watch for that sort of thing. That is one reason I like to delete the feature and then look for the red, but after I try it a time or two, I may switch to using your method. Thanks for the idea.
                sigpic"Hated by Many, Loved by Few" _ A.B. - Stone brewery

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Wes Cisco

                  I like the sound of your method and will give it a try next time the need arises. I use find/replace often, but you must be careful. If your feature name is CIR15 and you want to replace all of those, but you also have some features in your program named CIR151 or CIR15K, you could easily replace them as well if you are not on the watch for that sort of thing. That is one reason I like to delete the feature and then look for the red, but after I try it a time or two, I may switch to using your method. Thanks for the idea.
                  DO NOT USE FIND AND REPLACE!!!

                  Use find and then change each of the names manually. If you use find and replace it will try to change the name of the original feature as well as all the references! Then, you will have two features with the same name and bad things can happen!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Goodluck
                    DO NOT USE FIND AND REPLACE!!!

                    Use find and then change each of the names manually. If you use find and replace it will try to change the name of the original feature as well as all the references! Then, you will have two features with the same name and bad things can happen!
                    Picky, picky, picky. Yes you are correct. I am going to sit on my hands now before I type something else dumb before I have my second gallon of coffee.
                    sigpic"Hated by Many, Loved by Few" _ A.B. - Stone brewery

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                    • #11
                      WES (What everyone said)

                      One addition...

                      I am a fanatic about using Clearplane. It removes any problems you may have with regards to move points before and after any edited/deleted features. And it makes for a cleaner looking program. I use move points to move my probe to the operator for a tip change, and a few other intricate areas on my part.
                      sigpic

                      James Mannes

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                      • #12
                        When you are using cad can you not select the surface/feature/hits (what ever the case may be) and then hit the end key and get a measured feature into which you can insert move points? I don't use cad so I wouldn't know but the few (probably 2) times I have it seemed you can get measured features from cad. To be honest I use measured features more ofted than auto because of their flexibility. And no you dont have to have a part to do it. Just hit enter then start to type meas and you get a measured feature ready for editing so it can be done off line. I have written entire programs without cad and without the part and with measured features.

                        Craig
                        <internet bumper sticker goes here>

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JamesMannes
                          WES (What everyone said)

                          One addition...

                          I am a fanatic about using Clearplane. It removes any problems you may have with regards to move points before and after any edited/deleted features. And it makes for a cleaner looking program. I use move points to move my probe to the operator for a tip change, and a few other intricate areas on my part.
                          I used to use clearplanes but with multiple tip angles it can get a little confusing and dangerous.


                          Originally posted by craiger_ny
                          When you are using cad can you not select the surface/feature/hits (what ever the case may be) and then hit the end key and get a measured feature into which you can insert move points? I don't use cad so I wouldn't know but the few (probably 2) times I have it seemed you can get measured features from cad. To be honest I use measured features more ofted than auto because of their flexibility. And no you dont have to have a part to do it. Just hit enter then start to type meas and you get a measured feature ready for editing so it can be done off line. I have written entire programs without cad and without the part and with measured features.

                          Craig
                          It seems to me that you are correct. I don't do this either but I seem to remember that it is possible.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JamesMannes
                            WES (What everyone said)

                            One addition...

                            I am a fanatic about using Clearplane. It removes any problems you may have with regards to move points before and after any edited/deleted features. And it makes for a cleaner looking program. I use move points to move my probe to the operator for a tip change, and a few other intricate areas on my part.
                            Used CP for years and as other have said they can be dangerous. Way to much thinking involved if using multiple tips or star probes. Too me move points are way much easier. My .02 which means nothing...
                            sigpic.....Its called golf because all the other 4 letter words were taken

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                            • #15
                              All good useful info, especially on a Friday.

                              Originally posted by bw_bob
                              My .02 which means nothing
                              My .01 probably means less than Bob's.

                              I use both clearplanes & move points. I learned through very much trial and error programming offline from a cad model, if the cad model axes are not oriented to your machine axes clearplanes do not work.

                              Also, if I think a move point will be needed I put an operator comment in the program while programming offline. Then when I run the program and have forgotten about adding move points the program will stop and say "HEY DUMMY, WHERE'S MY MOVE POINT!".
                              Perry
                              B&S Mistral
                              3.207 Beta on XP

                              Older'n dirt

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