maintenance agreement not SMA

[TRD_racing]

I just found out that I had a maintenance agreement for calibrations and repairs to the machine. I have a Global Image 9-12-8. What type of calibration do you guys mainly use (b89 or something else) and as far as the maintained goes what should I be concerned about. They gave us a price; now that we paid it they want to charge us $900 more. I am wandering what are some of the concerns I should have? I went back to some older posts but still not sure what to ask about. Any info is appreciated. This is not the SMA, just a maintenance agreement.

[bw_bob]

My 1st question is why they want to charge you more money for. As far as calibration goes we usually have the ball bar calibration. I did have my 7107 laser calibrated once.

[TRD_racing]

My 1st question is why they want to charge you more money for. As far as calibration goes we usually have the ball bar calibration. I did have my 7107 laser calibrated once.

She said they quoted for the wrong machine. A different Global machine. Then she was talking about different levels of certifications if I didn't want to pay anymore money. We do not do work for anyone else, so we don't need an ISO certification of any kind. We also had the machine lasered in the beginning, that was 3 years ago. I was told they don't mind the maintaince agreement, it is the software agreement my boss has a problem w/. Am I ok w/ the B89 test, that is all I have ever seen done. Any suggestions are a help for me right now.

[bw_bob]

We do not have a maintence agreement. If it was me i would not pay anymore money. If you can get the ball bar calibration at that cost then that is what i would do.

[TRD_racing]

Thanks, bw_bob.

[Sean Harris]

the b89 is what the majority of all CMMs in the US are calibrated to. The machines are manufactured to the 10360 but certified during the install to the b89 UNLESS requested to the 10360.

[TRD_racing]

Is the 10360 a form of laser done at install? She also said I am supposed to get repairs. To what extent is what I am questioning. When I told them I didn't want to pay anymore they are looking into cutting out something, but I don't know what yet.

[bw_bob]

It sounds like they screwed up and now they are trying to do the same to you.

[TRD_racing]

It sounds like they screwed up and now they are trying to do the same to you.

That is exactly what I was thinking too, just wanted some other opinions. Thanks

[Sean Harris]

No the 10360 is a different spec. B&S manufactures the machines to the 10360 at their facility. When the machines are installed they get calibrated to the b89. the B89 has a volumetric requirement ahd the 10360 has a linear auccracy requirement ( generic explanation ). The specs are different for each machine make and size. I believe the maintainance agreement covers filters and light PM. If anything else was done to the machine then it would be billed I assume....?!?

[Rich P]

My understanding is there is a SMA for software
ie tech support for programming software issues as well as update to software when they are released
an SMA for machine itself but this covers working components of machine
BUT NOT the renishaw (probing) components

it may be all part of how details are contracted with sale of machine also

[cmmguy]

No the 10360 is a different spec. B&S manufactures the machines to the 10360 at their facility. When the machines are installed they get calibrated to the b89. the B89 has a volumetric requirement ahd the 10360 has a linear auccracy requirement ( generic explanation ). The specs are different for each machine make and size. I believe the maintainance agreement covers filters and light PM. If anything else was done to the machine then it would be billed I assume....?!?

The B89 also has a linear requirement, and a repeatability requirement, and a volumetric requirement. I guess if you just pick and choose you can require only one aspect of the B89.

Dale,
You should at the very least expect linears for each axis, repeatability, and volumetric(ball bar). I think B&S tries to pass the Linear Ball Bar off as a "accuracy" check but I have my questions about that. You should see a webber bar or equivalent (that would include a laser or kobe bar) used on your cmm. If not, question how they know the machine is accurate. All of this has nothing to do with ISO it is just common sense calibration stuff. Using the Linear Ball Bar is sort of like checking a 0 to 1 mic only at 1 inch and not at the various increments along the way.

You probably don't need "befores" since you are your own customer. The "befores" will pretty close to double the cal cost.

[Sean Harris]

Yeah the b89 checks all the necessary criteria for a valid calibration. I stated that the 2 word explanation was generic. The b89 uses a ball bar and checks several angles at several heights. This insures linear accuracy and squareness across the cube. As for accuracy the b89 has a larger margin for error than the 10360. This is relative also. I have a 998 image with a b89 of .008 mm, if I remember correctly, (across the entire cube) and a 10360 of .0017mm+ (L/333) L=length of standard.

There is a lot more to the discussion than can be covered here in a few lines of text. My suggestion is to read up on both the b89 and the ISO10360 and decide for yourself what your shop might need. IF your shop is like 99% of the shops in the US then the b89 should be enough of a cal to make the parts you supply. If the 10360 is the spec that you need then you would probably already know that and have several things in place to insure that your machine can meet the spec and several procedures in place to guarantee that your part measurement is that accurate.

[cmmguy]

As for accuracy the b89 has a larger margin for error than the 10360.

I am not sure I understand how the B89 has a larger margin of error. The number you quote for the B89 is only one element of the entire B89 standard. Why is that compared to a linearity check of the 10360 when the B89 also has that component with a similar tolerance. Maybe I am misunderstanding your point.

[Sean Harris]

The b89 covers the entire cube with 1 number. The operator has absolutely no idea where that error is. The entire error could be in the -z- axis above the table by 10" in the far back left corner. The ENTIRE cube is covered with one number. Granted it would be highly unlikely for all the error to be within a 2-3" section of the cube. My point was that the b89 has an "error number" assigned to it and we have no idea where that error is. The bigger the cube the larger the tolerance for error in the b89. The 10360 is set up for accuracy over a specified distance, so that no matter what you are measuring you always know what the accuracy of the measurement is.

The advertised b89 accuracy for my 7 7 7 global image is .009 mm. Now it is possible for ALL that error to be in 1 general area.

The same machine has an ISO10360 of .0017mm+(L/333) that means that no matter where on the cube you are you know what the errors are.