Total runout from cylinder to plane

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  • Total runout from cylinder to plane

    Im checking a gear with a circular runout callout to a flat surface from a cylindrical datum.Version 4.2 MR1 does not support this usage.Any ideas?

  • #2
    a Runout callout or a Total Runout callout? there is a big difference.
    sigpic

    I like to use slow circular moves. It builds tension and heightens the sensation. -Ironhoe

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    • #3
      if its Total Runout on the flat bottom of the gear then you need to have a gage that holds the gear with centers grasping the datum axis then while rotating the part 360° you will need an indicator that moves up and down that entire surface that can be placed at every location along the surface in a position normal to the true geometric shape without resest of the indicator per the ASME Y14.5M-1994. we were talking about this in another thread earlier today. the indicator on the gage has to move along the entire surface while its rotated otherwise you are only measuring Runout and not Total Runout. Engineers are stupid to put Total Runout on the print unless its a part for the space shuttle or a satellite, you pretty much need a custom gage to check Total Runout.

      http://www.pcdmisforum.com/showthread.php?t=10979
      Attached Files
      Last edited by winston; 08-01-2008, 03:04 PM.
      sigpic

      I like to use slow circular moves. It builds tension and heightens the sensation. -Ironhoe

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      • #4
        It calls for circular runout.

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        • #5
          I have not done any runout callout in a long time. I found this in the 4.2 manual

          The Insert | Dimension | Runout and Total Run menu options determine the runout of the first feature with respect to the second feature (i.e., the second feature becomes the datum feature). If only one feature is selected, the origin and the work plane become the datum feature. In this case, PCDMIS uses the position from the origin and the direction from the workplane for the datum.
          The text in the Edit window for the datum feature will read "THE ORIGIN".
          · Circular Runout works for circles, cones, cylinders, and spheres.
          · Total Runout works for cylinders, cones, and planes.
          This dimension type is considered one sided, meaning a single positive value tolerance is applied.
          sigpichttp://npmichaels.com/ (My sons book)
          THANKS (CAD IS ALWAYS MASTER)
          4.3 & 4.2MR2/GLOBAL/PH10MQ/WINDOWS XP

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          • #6
            Originally posted by 1rejector View Post
            It calls for circular runout.
            ok, i was confused because the title says Total runout.

            if you can put the part up on some centers, position an indicator so its on that surface, spin the part and record the TIR.

            the part has to spin about the datum axis to measure runout.

            imho cmm's are not a good way to measure runout.
            sigpic

            I like to use slow circular moves. It builds tension and heightens the sensation. -Ironhoe

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            • #7
              PCDMIS only support total runout for a plane but not circular runout.
              IMO Hexagon misinterpret ASME Y14.5M 1994, they think circular runout only applies to circles (dia.) but not a flat surface that's why that option's not available. Circular runout can be used for flat surface in a circular fashion. In your case measuring the gear surface using "radial” pattern and ask for perpendicular instead (squareness and form)PCDMIS would calc. it as runout and each circular plane of the same plane should be report separately.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by winston View Post
                ok, i was confused because the title says Total runout.

                if you can put the part up on some centers, position an indicator so its on that surface, spin the part and record the TIR.

                the part has to spin about the datum axis to measure runout.

                imho cmm's are not a good way to measure runout.
                +1

                Especially circular runout on a plane....
                Links to my utilities for PCDMIS

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                • #9
                  I will key it in then.Thanks

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by lambo View Post
                    PCDMIS only support total runout for a plane but not circular runout.
                    IMO Hexagon misinterpret ASME Y14.5M 1994, they think circular runout only applies to circles (dia.) but not a flat surface that's why that option's not available. Circular runout can be used for flat surface in a circular fashion. In your case measuring the gear surface using "radial” pattern and ask for perpendicular instead (squareness and form)PCDMIS would calc. it as runout and each circular plane of the same plane should be report separately.
                    An old thread, I know, I found it through another thread ('similiar threads' at the bottom).

                    I don't know if they misinterprete ASME Y14.5M by only letting you choose planes in the total runout evaluation. I would think of it more as a 'safety'. If you had measured a plane that had a 'single runout' callout, and chose that plane in the same evaluation option you would actually be evaluating total runout - unless you have taken each of your points at the same radius.

                    Now, most of the time you would spread the points all over a plane and that is why they only let you choose plane as a toleranced feature in the total runout evaluation - not the single runout evaluation.

                    So, for checking a single runout on a plane, do a radial plane measurement (taking your points at a constant radius) and then evaluate it using the total runout evaluation. The icon on the report will not be correct, but the method will be.
                    PC-DMIS CAD++ 2o19 R1 SP11

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