Vision systems vs touch systems.

[Bruce]

I've been looking into vision systems also and B&S seem to be really limiting themselves.I have used PC-DMIS for a few years now and a lot of other software is coming out which seems muche easier to use.I have looked at systems from Micro-Vu and soon Mitutoyo.Basically all you do is measure the part sing certain defined tools and the machine remembers not only where it was,the light levels,magnification,well you know.
Even If B&S does come out with this for its automated machines,its almost fighting against its own PC-DMIS software. After seeing demos of other software on other equipment PC-DMIS seems pretty antiquated.
Don't get me wrong,it may seem like I'm bashing PC-DMIS,maybe I am in a way,but other software is much easier to use,and thats why in a way were getting rid of our CMM.Only one person can use it.Now with the newer software,anyone can use it and its faster on top of that.
I've been trying to get them to keep the CMM, but even i can't find a reason,now with these newer machinesand software coming out.The hybrids that have laser,vision and touch are the wave coming and it will in my opinion eventually make these other machines obsolete.Right now there too expensive,but that will quickly change I'm sure.
Lots of changes coming for sure.

[craiger_ny]

This is funny. I complained to OGP about how "dumb" there software is and used CMM software as an example of how their stuff is antiquated and lacks the flexibility and intuitiveness that it should have. They said that is the way the industry is going. I said at a minimum I'd like to have access to code so I can at least be flexable in my own way. They said "Craig you are a minority, people don't want that. They want buttons and icons. They don't edit things they just want to push a button and watch it go".

Bruce, will you kindly stop talking to them........

[spazus_maximus]

Easier is not always better...

[bw_bob]

Easier is not always better...

But its easier

[craiger_ny]

But its easier

I like my women easy and my software flexible thank-you very much.

[bw_bob]

Easier is not always better...

I like my women easy and my software flexible thank-you very much.


I like my women flexible & my software easy

[Matthew D. Hoedeman]

I like my women flexible & my software easy

I thought YOU liked your women like you like your underwear, BIG and LOOSE!

[bw_bob]

I hope Bruce is writing down all this valuable info...I know i'am

[Wes Cisco]

I've been looking into vision systems also and B&S seem to be really limiting themselves.I have used PC-DMIS for a few years now and a lot of other software is coming out which seems muche easier to use.I have looked at systems from Micro-Vu and soon Mitutoyo.Basically all you do is measure the part sing certain defined tools and the machine remembers not only where it was,the light levels,magnification,well you know.
Even If B&S does come out with this for its automated machines,its almost fighting against its own PC-DMIS software. After seeing demos of other software on other equipment PC-DMIS seems pretty antiquated.
Don't get me wrong,it may seem like I'm bashing PC-DMIS,maybe I am in a way,but other software is much easier to use,and thats why in a way were getting rid of our CMM.Only one person can use it.Now with the newer software,anyone can use it and its faster on top of that.
I've been trying to get them to keep the CMM, but even i can't find a reason,now with these newer machinesand software coming out.The hybrids that have laser,vision and touch are the wave coming and it will in my opinion eventually make these other machines obsolete.Right now there too expensive,but that will quickly change I'm sure.
Lots of changes coming for sure.


Did you talk to your sales rep about the wonderful new miracle module called "Inspection Planner"? All you have to do is feed your CAD model to pc-dmis , have the part somewhere near your CMM table, click on execute and behold a smart looking report spews forth from your printer, or is saved to a file if you are a tree hugger who does not like to waste pulp. BTW I have a small side line that specializes is orchestrating and compiling documents bristling with verbiage nearly indecipherable but appearing to meet or exceed all the expected metrics established by ISO, MIL, BS, ASQ, etc. As is aptly presented in powerpoint pareto graphs. The entire package will enable management to justify communicating the need to issue a purchase order for this system to accounting and subsequently stun auditors with such magnitude that a moderately expensive business lunch will ensure zero gigs despite the lack of a concrete relationship between the symbols on the report and any actual condition of quality inherent in the product. Best of all if you order before the end of the month not only is your company eligible for a one time 20% price increase, I will personally send you a coffee mug full of Hersey's Kisses. :rolleyes:











Yes that is all nonsense and I have never used inspection planner but the idea of letting an engineer who clearly does not comprehend GD&T decide which features the CMM should check and how to check them seems an invitation for GIGO to me.:eek:



You can not idiot proof the world the idiots will outsmart you every time!:(



Why not have the 1 guy who knows how to use the CMM teach some other people how to use it?

[Bruce]

Yes waiting with baited breath actually! But as you see in my company,there actually getting rid of a perfectly good CMM,and having a hard time doing so.
Easier may not be better,but it sure makes things a lot more accessable.We have an inspector here John who is probably inspected more different types of parts than most of us put together.I've been doing inspection for over 30 years and he's one very smart and funny inspector.But he won't go anywhere near a CMM.Even the new software with buttons and Icons puts him on edge.He's not the only one out there.Run into quite a few basically old dogs that don't want to learn new tricks.There smart,just new things scare them away.So "easier" in there case makes it a little less scary and they might buy into it.
They might not have the experience,but it makes difficult inspections easier,and that sure is a big plus.
You guys better hope there aren't any Woman PC-DMIS experts lurking,I've actually run into quite a few that are pretty sharp.
You "guys" have a good weekend.I can't wait for the great race on Sunday!

[craiger_ny]

That sells machines, believe me that sells machines. But an easy product is not equivalent to a superior product. The drum machine didn't obsolete drums, it just alowed some less than tallented folks to make music.

[luapnor]

I like my women flexible & my software easy

How do you like you body builders? STIFF and HARD?

[craiger_ny]

How do you like you body builders? STIFF and HARD?

I like them in the closet.

[bw_bob]

How do you like you body builders? STIFF and HARD?

I believe you said those 2 words the other night...right before you swallowed

[Wes Cisco]

Yes waiting with baited breath actually! But as you see in my company,there actually getting rid of a perfectly good CMM,and having a hard time doing so.
Easier may not be better,but it sure makes things a lot more accessable.We have an inspector here John who is probably inspected more different types of parts than most of us put together.I've been doing inspection for over 30 years and he's one very smart and funny inspector.But he won't go anywhere near a CMM.Even the new software with buttons and Icons puts him on edge.He's not the only one out there.Run into quite a few basically old dogs that don't want to learn new tricks.There smart,just new things scare them away.So "easier" in there case makes it a little less scary and they might buy into it.
They might not have the experience,but it makes difficult inspections easier,and that sure is a big plus.
You guys better hope there aren't any Woman PC-DMIS experts lurking,I've actually run into quite a few that are pretty sharp.
You "guys" have a good weekend.I can't wait for the great race on Sunday!

Oh we know there are some out there and we mean them no disrespect, but if they want to fight, bring it on, I bet they got nothing on my ex!

As for old dogs and new tricks, hire a pup or two with high school level trig. Start them at an apprentice wage. Sure it will take 3-5 years for them to really fly on their own, but if American manufacturing does not do more of this we will continue to find many companies reluctantly taking manufacturing out of the country as much because they just can't find anyone here who can do the work as because of cost.

Have a great weekend yourself, and never forget. . .

WHISKEY IS BETTER THAN MOST THINGS!!!

[luapnor]

I believe you said those 2 words the other night...right before you swallowed

It's ok Bob, these guys dont care what you do in private.

[bw_bob]

It's ok Bob, these guys dont care what you do in private.

Whos your stud muffin....

[Wes Cisco]

Sorry Bruce, looks like you had better shoot this thread in the head now and put it out of our misery. Once Luapnor and BwBob get going the horse's leg is broke.:cool:

[luapnor]

Whos your stud muffin....

I thought I was yours...:(

[Bruce]

"Sorry Bruce, looks like you had better shoot this thread in the head now and put it out of our misery. Once Luapnor and BwBob get going the horse's leg is broke." Looks like your right Wes ! But on a more serious note,You say train someone to use the machine.They don't want any part of that at all.I better shoot this thread and the US manufacturing in the head,because It just ain't happening here in the good ole US of A anymore.2 out of the 4 companies I have worked for in the last 32 years have moved out of the country,one to Ireland and the other to good ole Mexico.The company I work for now buys a product locally in MA and have just moved there molding operations to Mexico also.Only problem is they didn't finish there validation testing prior to moving it.Now they just found out they have a problem,guess what too late gringo!
Fast and cheap ,thats where companies believe they can save money.Too bad thats not synonymous with quality.But going from workers who make $15hr to say $4 or $5(ok I'm generous) looks real good on paper for companies trying to make more money.But I think in the end there's a lot more to consider than that.