Looking for vision system

[Bruce]

I have used PC-DMIS in the past,but the company I work for now doesn't want to be reliant on one person to run the machine.We have a PFX 4-5-4 right now and are currently looking to sell it.We have had a few demos of vision system equipment,but so far nothing has done quite what were looking for.
We are a small but forward looking medical equipment supplier. I think the ideal working range would be 12-15" in the X-axis,8-10"in the Y-axis and 5-8"in the Z-axis.
I took a quick look at the Mitutoyo page but most of there systems won't cover the range.We would like the system to be usable with minimun training.We have 3 inspectors with varying skill levels.
What are some of the systems and manufacturers of vision systems you might recommend?
I was thinking a manual system would probably be best,since we are on somewhat of a limited budget. Thanks!

[Matthew D. Hoedeman]

When accuracy is a MUST, computer contol is the best. Not sure if that would hold true with a vision system, but it does in every other way that I can think of, CMM, Mills, lathes, etc. I doubt that DCC would run too much more than manual. I would say that if the extra cost of DCC was 20% or less than the cost of just the manual, then you should REALLY push for DCC. It will pay for itself easily. If you are running any kind of 'production' (ie NOT one-of-a-kind), then the DCC will pay for itself VERY quickly.

[Crash Not]

I would recommend that you look into Micro-Vu. Been using a Micro-Vu "Matrix Video Measuring System" here for about 9 years. Quicker to program than our CMM, bur not quite as accurate. Able to import a DXF file and translate to inspection program. Work envelope on this machine is 24x18x12". Cost about 45K (1998). They do have smaller, manual ones available. Also service and support have been outstanding.

[wicked_tattoo]

You could also take a look at a Tesa Visio 300 Dcc, granted that comes with PCDmis vision but i really dont think that it has that bad of a training issue. But that might just be me, i can from a place that had one and we had ppl with all kinds of different skill levels and they did fine. Just my 2 cents

[craiger_ny]

We have a Flash 400 for sale. Would you be willing to trade the PFX for it? I like those machines. What is on the PFX (software, probing)?

Mitutoyo vision systems are the cat's meow, don't know if you can get them right now though. OGP makes a very nice machine and has been working with light interpretation for longer than anyone probably. I'd count on them to have a handle on that. Unfortunately they do not have a good handle at all on writing a user friendly front end. It is some of the worst software I have ever worked with. However, it is OK software for the average Joe operator to walk up to and measure stuff with. From a programmer perspective it gets the gold for least intuitive. I would love to spend a day with their development team just laughing at them, it is my sincere hope that PCDMIS being on vision will get them off their asses and make an attempt at writing some software that is worth more than a roll of toilet paper. I think they actually came up with Measure Fit as an attempt to make up for the lameness of the main app. PCDMIS is nice stuff but I am not sure what their experience is with light interpretation alogrythms. I demoe'd Starrett's vision system and it is pretty much like the OGP system if there was a K-Mart version of OGP's stuff......

Let me know the scoop on the PFX. The flash 400 is in our other plant and never gets used. That is how hated that software is. I have a flash 400 I use here (reluctantly) and as much as I hate the software it has been indispensable.

[bw_bob]

What Craig said about the OGP.....DITTO !!!

[craiger_ny]

Don't get me wrong the OGP machines are nice and I trust their experience. But the software has a long ways to go.

Hey Bob, did you get your new Flash yet? Did you get Measure Fit? It is a cool add on if you are used to dealing with the standard interface but it hardly makes up for the shortcomings.

[wicked_tattoo]

I would have to agree we have a ogp here and i hate the software.

[spazus_maximus]

Sorry if im redundant but I didnt feel like reading the previous posts....However OGP Smartscopes are really nice & the model we had could have a touch trigger probe mounted on it also(never used it)...but the software (Measure-X,Measure fit) does have a long way to go(all front end stuff). A buddy of mine told me they are compatible with pcdmis vision which i know nothing about. But i think it would be worth looking into.........

[bw_bob]

Don't get me wrong the OGP machines are nice and I trust their experience. But the software has a long ways to go.

Hey Bob, did you get your new Flash yet? Did you get Measure Fit? It is a cool add on if you are used to dealing with the standard interface but it hardly makes up for the shortcomings.

They bought it & put it on the other end of the building. I've walked down there once when they screwed something up....Not gonna give it to me then screw em......

[Bruce]

Well so far we had a starlight demo and later this week (Thursday) we're having Micro-Vu come in and do a demo of there 12x12x6 Vertex vision system.I thought I saw somewhere on this forum that in popularity its Mitutoyo,OGP and then Micro-Vu. Haven't been able to find much about the Mitutoyo and the OGP software seems to be in question,so the Micro-Vu seems to be the way to go.The 12x12x6 goes for around $35,000.
I have used one of there manual machines for about 10 years and it worked great.This seems to be quite a step up.Almost like a small CMM without the learning curve.
One of my fellow inspectors was a bit worried when he heard the word programmed,but I tried to tell him it wasn't anything like a PC-DMIS equipped CMM.
So what do you guys think of how easy they are to use and the machine itself?

[craiger_ny]

Don't know anything about Micro-Vu. Mitutoyo and OGP are definately worth looking at. I slam OGP's software but it does not make it an inferior machine just one that could (and should) be doing better.

I would not make a decision without at least checkign those guys out.

[Crash Not]

Bruce, I consider the Micro-Vu software to be some of the easiest to learn. After you set your alignment, or your part co-ordinate system, the software defaults to a 'self teach" mode and basically mimics every move the operator makes. And you can still translate, offset, mirror, rotate,ect. features if you want. Pretty darn simple and alot quicker than our CMM, mainly because of no clearance moves necessary. We helped Micro-vu demo this machine twice and that resulted in two new sales.

[cmmguy]

Bruce,

What are you accuracy requirements.

Make sure that you include a test of the systems ability to perform within those parameters first, then choose software from that short list. Dont start with software first.... easy to use doesnt mean accurate.

All vision systems are NOT built a like. It goes beyond the mechanics of the stage also. How do they handle Zoom lens Calibration, How do they handle field of view calibration, what are the specs on par-focal. If you plan to measure 3D parts, what are the squareness(ZX and YZ) specs and how do they verify it(Ask for specifics). There currently is no standard for Vision systems that anyone adheres to. Every manufacturer does their own thing.

[nkayWAI]

Depending on the application, and if you have a particular type of Hexagon CMM, then Hexagons CMM-V probe (video probe attachment for a Global CMM) may be another option to investigate.

[Bruce]

It's true easy to use doesn't mean accurate by any means,but it does mean one thing,it WILL get used. I've actually been to quite a few places where equipment just isn't used,because it is to hard to use or the perception of it being difficult to use is there.I don't know how many people I've heard say,well if its too hard to use i'll just do it the old way.They have no interest at all in learning new equipment whatsoever.This seems to apply to people who have been measuring things for a long time.
So accuracy is very important,true,but getting people to actually use eguipment is even more impotant.Hey our CMM right now is sitting in a corner collecting dust.The other machine I used to work on is also doing the same as all the mfg there has moved to Ireland.
As far as accuracy goes,probably out to .0001,or in rare cases out to .00001.We also had issues with seeing into and measuring blind bores and holes.You guys might just laugh out loud If you saw the comparator we use,its a Mitutoyo PH-350.For z axis it still uses an analog indicator which swings out of the way when not in use.Someone here said its over 20 years old.
Our height gage is a Fowler Trimos,which is probably 15-20 years old.So at this point getting something with a digital readout might just cause a parting of the waters here,If you know what I mean.